Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

Sci Fi mutterings.

Study matter and its motion through spacetime...

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#21  Postby Cito di Pense » May 09, 2017 6:28 am

crank wrote:Well, it's not exactly a realistic scenario hypothetical. And, is there much difference between a jupiter going that fast hitting the sun and a disrupted Jupiter going that fast hitting the sun? It depends on how contained the disruption is, and we could just postulate an alien tractor beam with a lot of attitude and an ability to contain the objects it's tractoring around.


Well, this has truly crossed over into who-gives-a-fuck territory, because once we have tractor beams as you specify, we can accelerate things past the speed of light. Can we not? Sure, we can make up whatever fucking rules we like. Why stress out over whether a speedy Jupiter could disrupt the sun? Of course it could. It could destroy the entire universe, because the sun would not have the necessary mass or density to interrupt its progress. We'd have to wait until the bullet hit a black hole. Then it's like playing billiards with normal-size balls on a table the size of... well, just make up a size. Bigger than Texas.

I find this shit entertaining, too, but in a slightly different way. In any event, physics is apparently NOT relevant, here, and so this thread does not belong in the Physics forum.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Amir Bagatelle
Posts: 28501
Age: 22
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#22  Postby crank » May 09, 2017 7:14 am

What universe do you live in? Tractor beams accelerating faster than the speed of light? That's definitely not a Ford. Going with a jupiter close to the speed of light isn't 'who gives a fuck' to begin with? You had an objection that I merely suggested one way around. The basic question remains, and I assumed it was always just a fun exercise. Plus, NOTHING is bigger than Texas! :nanana:
“When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.”
-George Carlin, who died 2008. Ha, now we have human centipedes running the place
User avatar
crank
RS Donator
 
Name: Sick & Tired
Posts: 10362
Age: 4
Male

Country: 2nd miasma on the left
Pitcairn (pn)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#23  Postby DavidMcC » May 09, 2017 9:30 am

james1v wrote:I suspect, the worse thing that would happen is, the sun may have a slight tummy upset, and burp.

Yeah, but the inner solar system might not survive the gravitational disruption involved. Too bad for the planet earth, eh?! I suppose we've had a fair crack of the whip, so mustn't complain. :waah: :whine:
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#24  Postby DavidMcC » May 12, 2017 2:05 pm

Fortunately for us, there are no known stars in the galaxy that are moving at close to the speed of light, nor are there any likely to make a close encounter with Jupiter, making the combination of these highly unlikey indeed. It is surely much more likely (though still highly unlikely) to be the fast star itself that causes the crisis for the solar system, not Jupiter after being catapulted by the star.

(Edited for spelling.)
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#25  Postby lucek » Aug 09, 2017 1:50 pm

So the book came out and the scale i thought of was a bit big. They just smashed 2 superearths into the poles of a star a scant bit below C. Supernova ensues.
Next time a creationist says, "Were you there to watch the big bang", say "Yes we are".
"Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.":Sciwoman
User avatar
lucek
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 3641

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#26  Postby The_Metatron » Aug 10, 2017 12:59 am

lucek wrote:So the book came out and the scale i thought of was a bit big. They just smashed 2 superearths into the poles of a star a scant bit below C. Supernova ensues.

Well, of course. The poles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I AM Skepdickus!

Check out Hack's blog, too. He writes good.
User avatar
The_Metatron
Moderator
 
Name: Jesse
Posts: 20612
Age: 56
Male

Country: United States
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#27  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 10, 2017 9:56 am

lucek wrote:So the book came out and the scale i thought of was a bit big. They just smashed 2 superearths into the poles of a star a scant bit below C. Supernova ensues.

Which book would that be? Sci-fi, no doubt. :roll:

EDIT: There is still the rather big issue of what is going to cause 2 super-earths to smash (simultaneously or otherwise) into the sun at almost the speed of light. :lol:
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#28  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 10, 2017 1:34 pm

... You might just as well imagine a stray black hole coming along and destroying the solar system! At least black holes are known to exist in the galaxy, which is more than can be said of planets moving at close to c in the galaxy.

EDIT: That kind of imaginative stuff is great for sci-fi, but nothing more.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#29  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 10, 2017 4:59 pm

Of course, there are atomic nuclei and electrons, travelling at close to the speed of light, but there is an enormous difference between them and planets!
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#30  Postby lucek » Aug 10, 2017 8:10 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
lucek wrote:So the book came out and the scale i thought of was a bit big. They just smashed 2 superearths into the poles of a star a scant bit below C. Supernova ensues.

Which book would that be? Sci-fi, no doubt. :roll:

EDIT: There is still the rather big issue of what is going to cause 2 super-earths to smash (simultaneously or otherwise) into the sun at almost the speed of light. :lol:

Bobiverse.

But yes it's scifi. That said only a few gimmies. As said before reaction-less mass is the one major relavent one(at least in books 1&2) beyond that it's all pretty feasible. in this case yes if it was possible for a psudogravitational field to be created then the only question is time and amount of fusible material found in interstellar space. For that matter the math does work 2 bodies would impart a nontrivial amount of energy on impact with the star. A pressure wave would propagate deceasing the temp required for heavy element fusion. If sufficient material was fused in the short time period then the radiation pressure at the core would drop causing a core collapse and supernova.

Now again Dave this is fiction before you rant at me again for what you perceive as lacking. It was and is an interesting thought experiment.

It is a good read and the only space opera I can think of that speeds are less than C and Tau of multiple individuals in different reference frames is tackled. It also takes a look at alot of other big questions on more plausible ideas.

Basically Dave, shut up.
Next time a creationist says, "Were you there to watch the big bang", say "Yes we are".
"Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.":Sciwoman
User avatar
lucek
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 3641

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#31  Postby lucek » Aug 11, 2017 12:12 am

Ok so did the math out the quoted force in the book and the distance between the 2 stars being what they and the density of the interstellar medium then the arrangement would require a ramscoop 126 kilometers on a side. even at a piss pore efficiency that is feasible. Hell thinking about it that would be doable with fusion ion drives and a big enough ramscoop no new physics required. would still take a lifetime of acceleration and without space side autofactories the entire world basically would work on building something like that for many years probably another lifetime or 2.
Next time a creationist says, "Were you there to watch the big bang", say "Yes we are".
"Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.":Sciwoman
User avatar
lucek
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 3641

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#32  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 12, 2017 11:59 am

lucek wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
lucek wrote:So the book came out and the scale i thought of was a bit big. They just smashed 2 superearths into the poles of a star a scant bit below C. Supernova ensues.

Which book would that be? Sci-fi, no doubt. :roll:

EDIT: There is still the rather big issue of what is going to cause 2 super-earths to smash (simultaneously or otherwise) into the sun at almost the speed of light. :lol:

Bobiverse.

But yes it's scifi. That said only a few gimmies. As said before reaction-less mass is the one major relavent one(at least in books 1&2) beyond that it's all pretty feasible. in this case yes if it was possible for a psudogravitational field to be created then the only question is time and amount of fusible material found in interstellar space. For that matter the math does work 2 bodies would impart a nontrivial amount of energy on impact with the star. A pressure wave would propagate deceasing the temp required for heavy element fusion. If sufficient material was fused in the short time period then the radiation pressure at the core would drop causing a core collapse and supernova.

Now again Dave this is fiction before you rant at me again for what you perceive as lacking. It was and is an interesting thought experiment.

It is a good read and the only space opera I can think of that speeds are less than C and Tau of multiple individuals in different reference frames is tackled. It also takes a look at alot of other big questions on more plausible ideas.

Basically Dave, shut up.

Lucek, if you want to navel-gaze about your physics fantasies, shouldn't you put it in one of the Fun forum or Fiction, or something, as long as you stop abusing the Phyics forum.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#33  Postby lucek » Aug 15, 2017 10:49 pm

Dave. You don't have to contribute. Ok you're not but you know what i mean. From the start you've done nothing but say this is a waste of time. If the mod's thinks this a miss categorized thread they can fix it. You sniping from the sidelines adds nothing but length to the thread.
Next time a creationist says, "Were you there to watch the big bang", say "Yes we are".
"Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.":Sciwoman
User avatar
lucek
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 3641

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#34  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 16, 2017 9:24 am

lucek wrote:Dave. You don't have to contribute. Ok you're not but you know what i mean. From the start you've done nothing but say this is a waste of time. If the mod's thinks this a miss categorized thread they can fix it. You sniping from the sidelines adds nothing but length to the thread.

I only contribute when I think a thread is going seriously awry, as it often does when you are a contributor in the physics forum.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#35  Postby lucek » Aug 17, 2017 12:15 pm

Out of curiosity Dave did you did you do the feasibility calculations. Determine the relativistic mass and it's energy equivalent of such a feat, calculate the amount of hydrogen required to produce that amount of energy, calculate the amount available on a flight path and thus come to the conclusion that it was impossible or did you just think it was stupid and stop thinking. Because your insults aside I did the former and found it impractical even with real world tech (or tech 50 years down the line) but possible. and that may not seem important to you nor perhaps the question of lethal doses of neutrinos or any of a million other ideas from scify but all they are there is to get people thinking.

Dave I really dislike you. Not because of your snipes or your demeanor but because you can't take 2 seconds and look at something for the honest question it is.
Next time a creationist says, "Were you there to watch the big bang", say "Yes we are".
"Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.":Sciwoman
User avatar
lucek
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 3641

United States (us)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#36  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 12:34 pm

lucek wrote:Out of curiosity Dave did you did you do the feasibility calculations. Determine the relativistic mass and it's energy equivalent of such a feat, calculate the amount of hydrogen required to produce that amount of energy, calculate the amount available on a flight path and thus come to the conclusion that it was impossible or did you just think it was stupid and stop thinking. Because your insults aside I did the former and found it impractical even with real world tech (or tech 50 years down the line) but possible. and that may not seem important to you nor perhaps the question of lethal doses of neutrinos or any of a million other ideas from scify but all they are there is to get people thinking.

Dave I really dislike you. Not because of your snipes or your demeanor but because you can't take 2 seconds and look at something for the honest question it is.

None of the above is necessary (most of it irrelevant) to the title subject. For the answer to the actual question, "Could Jupiter Kill the Sun", I think astronomers have already worked out that the sun would just "burp" as someone here put it, because even two super-earths would still be very small compared to the sun, as there is a limit to how large a planet can be and still be earth-like. Also,because there is no object bigger than an atomic nucleus travelling at close to the speed of light in the galaxy.
I appreciate that you like to imagine the improbable (and impossible), but please don't take them too seriously.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#37  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 1:04 pm

OTOH, if you feel that the subject has been ignored by the peer-reviewed scientific press, why not write to Letters to Nature. I'm sure they'd like a bit of amusement..
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14913
Age: 66
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Previous

Return to Physics

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest