Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

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Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#1  Postby lucek » Apr 20, 2017 3:26 am

Let us assume we can accelerate Jupiter to a high percentage of the speed of light. Fast enough that any atoms in it's way can't get out of the way and thus would fuse. Then let us aim it at the sun. So the entire mass of Jupiter and an equal mass of the sun undergoes fusion. Back of the envelope calculation puts energy release from the fusion within an order of magnitude of a supernova. I'm assuming that would mean that a shock wave would propagate to the other side of the sun causing more fission and then the sun would undergo an asymmetric explosion resulting in a narrow nova.

Any thoughts beyond this would never work(i know, just a what if).

This was inspired by a book I read today kinda but it's not directly related.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#2  Postby crank » Apr 20, 2017 6:36 am

What's the amount of energy to do the acceleration relative to Jupiter's normal mass?
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#3  Postby JoeB » Apr 20, 2017 8:17 am

Smacking jupiter into the sun at relativistic speeds would be quite a whopper for sure.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#4  Postby Alan B » Apr 20, 2017 10:10 am

What book would that be?
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#5  Postby DavidMcC » May 01, 2017 11:10 am

Lucek does like to fantasise from time to time, and this is one of his best!
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#6  Postby crank » May 02, 2017 10:44 pm

Not exactly erotic for me, but to each his own.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#7  Postby laklak » May 03, 2017 4:40 pm

We'd have drops of Jupiter in our hair, hey ey ey ey eeeeey.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#8  Postby crank » May 03, 2017 4:51 pm

You could get Europa involved if interested in a more B&D experience.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#9  Postby zulumoose » May 04, 2017 5:50 am

the entire mass of Jupiter and an equal mass of the sun undergoes fusion


Why would it be an equal mass? What would be the mass of a Jupiter sized hole punched through the sun? Wouldn't the hole be slightly bigger than that due to gravity attracting particles in (though granted not much bigger due to the speed of the event)? How does that compare to Jupiter's mass?
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#10  Postby newolder » May 04, 2017 7:58 am

At such relative speeds, the Sun would appear Lorentz contracted as a pancake to Jupiter and vice versa. What that does to the collision is beyond me, at the moment. :dunno:
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#11  Postby lucek » May 04, 2017 12:42 pm

zulumoose wrote:
the entire mass of Jupiter and an equal mass of the sun undergoes fusion


Why would it be an equal mass? What would be the mass of a Jupiter sized hole punched through the sun? Wouldn't the hole be slightly bigger than that due to gravity attracting particles in (though granted not much bigger due to the speed of the event)? How does that compare to Jupiter's mass?

I used that as the starting place. Assuming hydrogen hydrogen fusion of the 2 bodies colliding would produce more energy the carried in the relativistic (not C just a highish percent of C) Jupiter from my back of the envelope calculations. Further as the energy of the fusion reaction propagates at C there would be a point before the collision is done that the sun would explode due to increased radiation pressure.

Someone asked where this came from,

Reading a series that has an alien race constructing a Dyson sphere in our galactic neighborhood and is looking at sol for resources. so far in the series they've introduced reactionless drive (the one major gimmy in the series but hey space opera), relativistic kill vehicles and planet movers.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#12  Postby DavidMcC » May 07, 2017 10:04 am

crank wrote:Not exactly erotic for me, but to each his own.

So, you think all fantasies are erotic fantasies? :what: :nono:
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#13  Postby lucek » May 08, 2017 10:32 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
crank wrote:Not exactly erotic for me, but to each his own.

So, you think all fantasies are erotic fantasies? :what: :nono:

2nd post by Dave on this thread and wait. . . no still not a shit given.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#14  Postby james1v » May 09, 2017 1:07 am

I suspect, the worse thing that would happen is, the sun may have a slight tummy upset, and burp.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#15  Postby lucek » May 09, 2017 1:40 am

james1v wrote:I suspect, the worse thing that would happen is, the sun may have a slight tummy upset, and burp.

That was my initial thought too. The sun is orders of magnitude bigger then Jupiter. Just accounting for the kinetic energy of at say .1% C the sun would just sit there even at 1% the sun would just have a bad day. but at the speeds we are talking about fusion is far more likely. If a large percent of Jupiter mass fuses with atoms in the sun then the resulting explosion would be much more energy then just the kinetic energy alone.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#16  Postby crank » May 09, 2017 5:57 am

What is the mass of Jupiter at these speeds? It's going to be many, maybe hundreds of times Jupiter's 'rest mass' isn't it? I'm too lazy and stupid to try to grab an equation and assume I got the right one. It's going to be one of those 1/[1-(v/c)2] things I think, my brain function has declined too for me to try to get it right. I know I've heard of cosmic rays that have had the mass of something like a tennis ball I think, and that's way more by many orders of magnitude than 'hundreds of times' that I just said.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#17  Postby crank » May 09, 2017 6:08 am

I had to go wiki, found the entry on the 'Oh my god particle':
The Oh-My-God particle was an ultra-high-energy cosmic ray detected on the evening of 15 October 1991 over Dugway Proving Ground, Utah, by the University of Utah's Fly's Eye Cosmic Ray Detector.[1][2] Its observation was a shock to astrophysicists (hence the name), who estimated its energy to be approximately 3×1020 eV or 3×108 TeV. This is 20,000,000 times more energetic than the highest energy measured in electromagnetic radiation emitted by an extragalactic object[3] and 1020 (100 quintillion) times the energy of visible light. Therefore, the particle was an atomic nucleus with a kinetic energy of 48 joules, equivalent to a 142 g (5 oz) baseball travelling at about 26 m/s (94 km/h; 58 mph).[4]
This particle had so much kinetic energy it was travelling at ~ 99.999999999999999999999510% of the speed of light. As a result, its Lorentz factor was ~ 3.2×1011. This is so near the speed of light that if a photon were travelling with the particle, it would take over 215,000 years for the photon to gain a 1-centimeter lead.
The energy of this particle is some 40,000,000 times that of the highest energy protons that have been produced in any terrestrial particle accelerator. However, only a small fraction of this energy would be available for an interaction with a proton or neutron on Earth, with most of the energy remaining in the form of kinetic energy of the products of the interaction. The effective energy available for such a collision is qrt {2Emc2], where E is the particle's energy and mc2 is the mass energy of the proton. For the Oh-My-God particle, this gives 7.5×1014 eV, roughly 60 times the collision energy of the Large Hadron Collider.[5]
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#18  Postby Cito di Pense » May 09, 2017 6:12 am

crank wrote:What is the mass of Jupiter at these speeds? It's going to be many, maybe hundreds of times Jupiter's 'rest mass' isn't it? I'm too lazy and stupid to try to grab an equation and assume I got the right one. It's going to be one of those 1/[1-(v/c)2] things I think, my brain function has declined too for me to try to get it right. I know I've heard of cosmic rays that have had the mass of something like a tennis ball I think, and that's way more by many orders of magnitude than 'hundreds of times' that I just said.


No: What would accelerate something the size and density of Jupiter to such a velocity without its being disrupted by tidal stresses between the near and far sides of the direction of the force? If it was something the mass of Jupiter (0.001 solar mass) with a density that would allow it not to be tidally disrupted, its collision cross-section would be tiny, and you can recalculate your 'effects'. A neutron star with one solar mass is about 10 km across (order of magnitude, don't quibble).

What's the maximum force that would accelerate Jupiter to such a velocity without disruption, and how long would it take to achieve the velocity you're interested in?
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#19  Postby crank » May 09, 2017 6:17 am

Well, it's not exactly a realistic scenario hypothetical. And, is there much difference between a jupiter going that fast hitting the sun and a disrupted Jupiter going that fast hitting the sun? It depends on how contained the disruption is, and we could just postulate an alien tractor beam with a lot of attitude and an ability to contain the objects it's tractoring around.
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Re: Could Jupiter Kill the Sun

#20  Postby crank » May 09, 2017 6:18 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
crank wrote:What is the mass of Jupiter at these speeds? It's going to be many, maybe hundreds of times Jupiter's 'rest mass' isn't it? I'm too lazy and stupid to try to grab an equation and assume I got the right one. It's going to be one of those 1/[1-(v/c)2] things I think, my brain function has declined too for me to try to get it right. I know I've heard of cosmic rays that have had the mass of something like a tennis ball I think, and that's way more by many orders of magnitude than 'hundreds of times' that I just said.


No: What would accelerate something the size and density of Jupiter to such a velocity without its being disrupted by tidal stresses between the near and far sides of the direction of the force? If it was something the mass of Jupiter with a density that would allow it not to be tidally disrupted, its collision cross-section would be tiny, and you can recalculate your 'effects'. A neutron star with one solar mass is about 10 km across (order of magnitude, don't quibble).

What's the maximum force that would accelerate Jupiter to such a velocity without disruption, and how long would it take to achieve the velocity you're interested in?

And there isn't a time frame involved, it could be a jupiter accelerated over many many years/centuries/millennia kind of thing
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