Drops of water

size matters?

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Drops of water

#1  Postby Amergin » Jan 27, 2011 9:01 am

It has been raining today heavily. I have sat on my patio watching it. Along the eaves water gathers and then drips. I watch the water build until eventually it falls. Now clearly surface tension and mass dictate size of drips like this. Does anyone know the optimum size i.e. volume and mass or volume and weight? On other planets with less gravity or more this must effect the size. Any answers??
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Re: Drops of water

#2  Postby AragornIII » Jan 27, 2011 9:06 am

Amergin wrote:It has been raining today heavily. I have sat on my patio watching it. Along the eaves water gathers and then drips. I watch the water build until eventually it falls. Now clearly surface tension and mass dictate size of drips like this. Does anyone know the optimum size i.e. volume and mass or volume and weight? On other planets with less gravity or more this must effect the size. Any answers??


The optimal size depends on various factors, pressure, temperature, friction coefficents, and hence yes even gravity etc but yes there is an optimal size for any collection of water molecules. If by optimal you mean largests/most likely in a given system. however since its a variable dependant on other variables you'd have to specify a set of variables to get a definite value.
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Re: Drops of water

#3  Postby Amergin » Jan 27, 2011 12:46 pm

Is thyere a range of values? They seem pretty much the same size as I watch them fall?
Seriously.
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Re: Drops of water

#4  Postby AragornIII » Jan 29, 2011 1:25 am

Amergin wrote:Is thyere a range of values? They seem pretty much the same size as I watch them fall?
Seriously.


Of course there is rain drops come in all sizes from a tiny misting (fog) of micrometer scale, to a large drop nearly a 1/2 a cm in diameter or more if gravity and or atmosphere is not an issue. It depends on the conditions.

Without gravity they would be a perfect sphere too usually.
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Re: Drops of water

#5  Postby Amergin » Jan 29, 2011 1:45 am

I understand raindrops but I was wondering more aout the way water gathers on an eave before falling or even a dripping tap. Not the drops that fall from the sky which is just smaller drops merging I guess.
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Re: Drops of water

#6  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jan 29, 2011 2:09 am

From my understanding, according to the density of methane and the gravitational forces on Titan, Saturn's moon, rain drops are the size of grapes and fall as slow and at the whim of the breeze as snowflakes do on earth. I would love to see that.
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Re: Drops of water

#7  Postby Templeton » Jan 29, 2011 3:14 am

Amergin wrote:
On other planets with less gravity or more this must effect the size. Any answers??


Gravity isn't constant on earth. Don't know whether the difference is significant enough to alter rain drop size
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Re: Drops of water

#8  Postby AragornIII » Jan 29, 2011 9:48 am

Templeton wrote:
Amergin wrote:
On other planets with less gravity or more this must effect the size. Any answers??


Gravity isn't constant on earth. Don't know whether the difference is significant enough to alter rain drop size


I expect it affects them simply because in lower gravities rain drops would be bigger before they fell. But as to whether its significant or not I couldn't tell you, probably not since deviations are usually not much more than +/- 1% or less.
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Re: Drops of water

#9  Postby Amergin » Jan 29, 2011 10:45 pm

The situation I am acually wondering about is the drop of water at the end of a tap for instance where the washer is inefficient. The water gathers at the taps rim and then falls -often the dripping is quite regular. At the moment of it detaching itself it must be its weight that, under gravity, makes it fall. What is the weight and volume of the drop at that point. Given that gravity varies on our planet what is the range of weight/volume of the drop. Mineral content of water will be involved so volume will vary there but not weight.
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Re: Drops of water

#10  Postby AragornIII » Jan 30, 2011 8:31 am

Amergin wrote:The situation I am acually wondering about is the drop of water at the end of a tap for instance where the washer is inefficient. The water gathers at the taps rim and then falls -often the dripping is quite regular. At the moment of it detaching itself it must be its weight that, under gravity, makes it fall. What is the weight and volume of the drop at that point. Given that gravity varies on our planet what is the range of weight/volume of the drop. Mineral content of water will be involved so volume will vary there but not weight.


No idea but I suspect it is the point at which surface tension is overcome by gravity.

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension

All the info you need is in this link.
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Re: Drops of water

#11  Postby Amergin » Jan 30, 2011 9:44 pm

It ought to be easy enough to calculate by catching and weighing a drop and then from its density calculate its volume. Maybe folks aren't as interested as I. I don't have the rquipmet to carry out that procedure- only the curiosity.
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Re: Drops of water

#12  Postby Ubjon » Jan 30, 2011 10:06 pm

Surely contaminants will also play a role, both disolved and in suspension?
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Re: Drops of water

#13  Postby Amergin » Jan 31, 2011 9:12 am

Yes indeed but tap water is relatively free of those, to all intents and purposes.
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Re: Drops of water

#14  Postby AragornIII » Jan 31, 2011 10:06 am

Water 25 71.97mN/M

MiliNewtons per metre.

1N= 1kg ms^-2

Pressure of surface cohesion at 25 degrees c.

Now you just need to know what the surface tension and weight of the drop have to be overcome by gravity.

Work it out I guess. Can't be bothered meself. :)

9.80665 ms^−2

Force of gravity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendant_dr ... _drop_test

In the pendant drop test, a drop of liquid is suspended from the end of a tube by surface tension. The force due to surface tension is proportional to the length of the boundary between the liquid and the tube, with the proportionality constant usually denoted γ.[1] Since the length of this boundary is the circumference of the tube, the force due to surface tension is given by

Image

where d is the tube diameter.

The mass m of the drop hanging from the end of the tube can be found by equating the force due to gravity (Fg = mg) with the component of the surface tension in the vertical direction (Fγsinα) giving the formula

Image

where α is the angle of contact with the tube, and g is the acceleration due to gravity.

The limit of this formula, as α goes to 90°, gives the maximum weight of a pendant drop for a liquid with a given surface tension, γ.

Image

This relationship is the basis of a convenient method of measuring surface tension, commonly used in the petroleum industry. More sophisticated methods are available when the surface tension is unknown that consider the developing shape of the pendant as the drop grows
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Re: Drops of water

#15  Postby Amergin » Jan 31, 2011 11:40 am

I am grateful. I will not work it out either but it will be in my head when it rains again as it is supposed to do tomorrow.
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Re: Drops of water

#16  Postby AragornIII » Jan 31, 2011 12:33 pm

Amergin wrote:I am grateful. I will not work it out either but it will be in my head when it rains again as it is supposed to do tomorrow.


Well

mg=pi.diameter of pipe x 71.97

Divide both sides by g to get mass on its own.

So mass(kg)=3.1417... x diameter of pipe x 71.97)/~9.8ms^2

Take a 2 cm diameter tap nozzle say.

mass(kg)= 3.1417 x .02 x 0.007197/~96.04 = ?

converting to correct units I make it about .04614 grams or .00004614kg is the largest droplet that could form. About .05 grams which converts neatly to .05ml.

Incidentally I looked up the drop size from a dropper and its about .05ml or .05 grams. So that seems fairly reasonable to me.
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Re: Drops of water

#17  Postby Amergin » Feb 01, 2011 2:58 am

many grateful thanks for your troubles and time.
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Re: Drops of water

#18  Postby AragornIII » Feb 03, 2011 12:11 pm

Amergin wrote:many grateful thanks for your troubles and time.


Incidentally sin(90)= 1 (ie straight down 90 degrees from horizon) which is why you can simplify the equation x1 = itself.

Quite useful in determining weight really g at 90o = 1xg.
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