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Re: Large Hadron Collider - oh dear

#41  Postby 95Theses » Mar 10, 2010 10:41 am

This is akin to taking your car in for a scheduled service and then complaining bitterly that the piece of shit car broke down .....
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Re: Large Hadron Collider - oh dear

#42  Postby Simon_Gardner » Mar 10, 2010 11:58 am

DoctorE wrote:It will be up and running to destroy the world in 2012 ;)

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Re: Scientists say LHC is BORING!!

#43  Postby newolder » Mar 10, 2010 1:48 pm

crank wrote:Can someone explain an inverse femptobarn? I knew a barn was a unit of area used in nuclear thingies, but an inverse femptobarn as a unit of information/data?--"With an inverse femtobarn of data" or "An inverse femtobarn at the LHC pushes that up to about 800 GeV"?????

A barn (symbol b) is a unit of area. Originally used in nuclear physics for expressing the cross sectional area of nuclei and nuclear reactions, today it is used in all fields of high energy physics to express the cross sections of any scattering process. A barn is defined as 10−28 m2 or 100 square femtometers (fm2) and is approximately the cross sectional area of a uranium nucleus. The barn is also the unit of area used in nuclear quadrupole resonance and nuclear magnetic resonance to quantify the interaction of a nucleus with an electric field gradient. While the barn is not an SI unit, it is accepted for use with the SI due to its continued use in particle physics.[1] It is one of the very few units which are accepted to be used with SI units, and one of the most recent units to have been established (cf. the knot and the bar, other non-SI units acceptable in limited circumstances).[2]


An inverse femtobarn is a number. It measures what happened when we did this thing, many, many times, at these energies. By the time we have 3 (events) per femtobarn (three darts in the bulls' eye), the data, expressed in signed binary notation along intertubez and grid protocols, will bring sharper focus to head-on collision than we have ever had before.

I read that Prof. Cox would rather we all used the inverse electron-volt as the length scale. :roll: The mathematicians show how to juggle dimensions correctly: the conversion factors to any unit system are available over the tubez. So, future engineers have something to play with and there are units yet to be named, Nobel's to be won etc... However, in units where h = c = 1, the barn is an old physics joke and a useful measure of area.

The inverse femtobarn's-worth of data that is pouring into GRIDded processors at gigahertz rates, now (breath, cr, lf)
yields the numbers and categories of events that occurred here-now. Where 'here' is specified to femto-scale (very small barn) and 'now' is co-moving with the radiation: the tracks in 3d + t are clear for all to see and there are many tracks. The number and class of quanta this incident matter-radiation settles into is a statistical result (Gauss, Grassmann etc.) that only improves its resolution limits with more data (Poisson).
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Re: Scientists say LHC is BORING!!

#44  Postby Sphynxcat » Mar 10, 2010 1:58 pm

Alnilam wrote:It's the boring ones you have to watch out for. They are calling it boring just to take peoples minds off they know it is going to eat the earth. Basically the equivalent of a police officer standing next to a 50 car pile up saying "move along, nothing to see here"


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Re: Scientists say LHC is BORING!!

#45  Postby klazmon » Mar 11, 2010 10:09 pm

Sphynxcat wrote:You mean the LHC is already running, and the world hasn't ended?

Oh thank god! I can have a poo now...


Supposedly they will be running collisions up to 7 TeV CoM later this month. After they have the all data they want at this sort of energy (about 18 months to two years) the machine will be shut down for a year to do another round of engineering upgrades to bring it up to original design spec of being able to achieve 14 TeV CoM with protons.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider - oh dear

#46  Postby lpetrich » Mar 12, 2010 11:39 pm

The LHC won't be shut down right away. It'll be run for about 18 - 24 months at an energy of 3.5 TeV per proton before being shut down. After the shutdown, it should be ready to run at 7 TeV per proton.

It will be able to get into the masses of particles predicted by the Minimal Supersymmetric Standard Model (MSSM) and similar theories. They have oodles of fudge factors, but they are constrained by being connected to electroweak symmetry breaking. That means that the MSSM predicted particles' masses cannot be above a few hundred GeV without some rather odd parameter values.

It may seem that the LHC is overdesigned for that. But protons are composite, and when they collide, they make a big spew of particles, meaning that the protons' energy gets divided among them. The current lower limit to many MSSM particles' masses is about 100 GeV or therabouts (The Particle Data Group); several of them were obtained with the Fermilab Tevatron. Scaling by energy yields a lower limit of 350 GeV or so for the LHC as it's currently running, and 700 GeV or so for full energy.
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Re: Scientists say LHC is BORING!!

#47  Postby Alan C » Mar 13, 2010 1:00 am

newolder wrote:
cateye wrote:
newolder wrote:
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/journal/CERNBulletin/2010/10/News%20Articles/1246745?ln=en wrote:In the CERN Control Centre, the operators are now working on optimising the beam parameters and improving the beam lifetime. The energy of the proton beams is currently 450 GeV. The first energy ramp-up is expected in the next few days. High-energy collisions are planned for the end of March. 

Datestamp: Monday 8 March 2010
:???:

:shock: They must have created a wormhole!

:thumbup: I'm still a bit confused though (my excuse is that I'm only a physicist) – my understanding of backwards time travel that avoids tachyon reality is that one may travel back, at furthest, to the time the machine was built. To post something at 8 March and have it arrive on the intertubez a fraction of a day earlier still makes no sense to me – unless the web-site is designed and edited by meeja-studies majors with only a vague sense of daily routine. :dunno: :wink:

(also, why has the : wink : smiley appeared as a : wave : beastie... I think I'll go for a lie down... :whine: )


Well something I considered recently [which I should probably look up]; if a person in, say NZ or Fiji were to teleport instantly to another location on the opposite side of the international date line, say the Cook Islands, would he/she go back in time?
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Re: Scientists say LHC is BORING!!

#48  Postby cateye » Mar 13, 2010 11:43 am

Alan C wrote:Well something I considered recently [which I should probably look up]; if a person in, say NZ or Fiji were to teleport instantly to another location on the opposite side of the international date line, say the Cook Islands, would he/she go back in time?

I think you are confusing the local-time (as in roughly being the location of the sun in the sky) with physical time (as in measuring how long it takes for a ball to fall onto the floor).
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Re: Scientists say LHC is BORING!!

#49  Postby newolder » Mar 19, 2010 11:52 am

http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressRel ... 5.10E.html
LHC sets new record – accelerates beam to 3.5 TeV
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Re: Scientists say LHC is BORING!!

#51  Postby Dogmatic Pyrrhonist » Mar 20, 2010 10:32 am

Alan C wrote:
Well something I considered recently [which I should probably look up]; if a person in, say NZ or Fiji were to teleport instantly to another location on the opposite side of the international date line, say the Cook Islands, would he/she go back in time?


Hell, I can drive 100km down the coast and step over a date line (during summer months) jumping backwards and forwards in time. The only thing that changes is agreed reference time though. It's not very effective time travel.
As far as I know, the biggest stepable time jump (excluding joys of ice hoping to and from Alaska and Siberia) would be India to China, although it's a tad hilly at that border.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#52  Postby klazmon » Mar 22, 2010 9:58 am

Emergency dump provoked by sector 56 loss of cryo conditions. Doesn't look like a major but they are checking it out. No beam until 13:00.


Edit. Looks ok. Preparing cycling.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#53  Postby klazmon » Mar 23, 2010 1:13 pm

I see they are ramping up the beams right now. Bending magnets pulling 5,000 amps or so. 2.988 TeV per beam.

3.055 TeV..

...

3.2 TeV..

.
.
3.390 TeV... Bending magnets getting near 6,000 amps.


3.500 TeV.. Bending magnets just over 6,000 amps from the look of the graph. Wooot wooot!
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#54  Postby klazmon » Mar 23, 2010 1:24 pm

Wonder if they are going to do any collisions. The experiments arel in standby status except for CMS which says 'calibration'
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#55  Postby newolder » Mar 23, 2010 1:42 pm

http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressRel ... 6.10E.html
Geneva, 23 March 2010. With beams routinely circulating in the Large Hadron Collider at 3.5 TeV, the highest energy yet achieved in a particle accelerator, CERN has set the date for the start of the LHC research programme. The first attempt for collisions at 7 TeV (3.5 TeV per beam) is scheduled for 30 March.

...

A webcast will be available on the day of the first attempt to collide protons at 7TeV. More details will be available at: http://press.web.cern.ch/press/lhc-first-physics/
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#56  Postby Nautilidae » Mar 23, 2010 3:14 pm

newolder wrote:http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2010/PR06.10E.html
Geneva, 23 March 2010. With beams routinely circulating in the Large Hadron Collider at 3.5 TeV, the highest energy yet achieved in a particle accelerator, CERN has set the date for the start of the LHC research programme. The first attempt for collisions at 7 TeV (3.5 TeV per beam) is scheduled for 30 March.

...

A webcast will be available on the day of the first attempt to collide protons at 7TeV. More details will be available at: http://press.web.cern.ch/press/lhc-first-physics/


Hello, newolder. Thank you for the link.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#57  Postby newolder » Mar 23, 2010 3:48 pm

Good to read you've made it to the lifeboat, Nautilidae.
:cheers:
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#58  Postby newolder » Mar 26, 2010 1:40 am

Interesting news from low temperature physics: http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/41717
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#59  Postby twistor59 » Mar 26, 2010 8:54 am

newolder wrote:Interesting news from low temperature physics: http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/41717


It was E8 which featured in Garret Lisi's unified model too wasn't it ? Funny, these exceptional Lie groups spent all those decades in obscurity, and now they start popping up all over the place !
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#60  Postby newolder » Mar 26, 2010 12:34 pm

Yes indeed, J Gregory Moxness has his current (2007) incarnation of an E8 ToE here: http://theoryofeverything.org/TOE/JGM/ToE.pdf
This paper will present a new “more natural” reference model for integrating General Relativity (GR) and Quantum Mechanics (QM) by contrasting it with the development of a reference model based on the more traditional Planck units. The new unit-of-measure (UoM) is based on the non-linear expansion or acceleration of the universe [1]. It provides a testable framework for particle mass prediction in support of the Standard Model (SM) as well as M Theory (MT), Loop Quantum Gravity (LQG) and A. Garret Lisi’s recent “An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything (aESToE)” based on an E8 Lie Group Theory [2].
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