Stephen Hawking last book

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Stephen Hawking last book

#1  Postby Tuor » Mar 23, 2020 4:34 pm

It's been a long time without posting here, so here it goes.

So, couple months ago i've read Stephen Hawking last book. In the chapter he adresses to God, he claims that since time started with the Big Ben, there wasn't any time left for any God to have created the Big Ben.

Yet, there was time for a physical event (the big bang) to have heppened. Can someone please explain me this paradox? There wasn't any time for any God to have created the universe, yet there was time for the event that originated the big bang.
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Re: Stephen Hawking last book

#2  Postby Arcanyn » Mar 23, 2020 4:38 pm

Because of the end of daylight saving, they set Big Ben back an hour, giving everything an extra hour to happen.
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Re: Stephen Hawking last book

#3  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 23, 2020 4:49 pm

Tuor wrote:
Yet, there was time for a physical event (the big bang) to have heppened. Can someone please explain me this paradox? There wasn't any time for any God to have created the universe, yet there was time for the event that originated the big bang.


The universe: it's a strange place!

Honestly, I have no idea, and I doubt anyone does really - although there are undoubtedly vastly more educated guesses than I can come up with.

I'd say the paradox can be resolved by thinking of sets. The universe is a set. If the universe exists within something else, then that's a set. With the Big Bang, time started in our universe but that doesn't mean that there couldn't have been time outside that set. To add even more difficulty, time isn't really a thing so much as it's a procession of events; even trying to say what time is causes problems and paradoxes to occur. So if the universe is the sum of things that exist within its set, then time started at the Big Bang and nothing preceded the Big Bang within the set of the universe's things.

My sense is that these kind of questions are on the very limit of our imagination and our language simply cannot be utilized effectively to talk about them.
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Re: Stephen Hawking last book

#4  Postby newolder » Mar 23, 2020 5:03 pm

It's almost certainly a language problem, as Spearthrower notes. The relevant mathematics is that of the Wheeler-de Witt equation and how space & time coordinates get "mixed up" near the "beginning" of the evolution of the wavefunction of the universe.
Time Might Only Exist in Your Head. And Everyone Else's

is the title of a wired article that should get the interested reader started...

Further details on the W-de W equation are discussed at many places like this from 2018. Quoting the abstract:
The Wheeler–DeWitt equation was proposed 50 years ago and until now it is the cornerstone of most approaches to quantization of gravity. One can find in the literature, the opinion that the Wheeler–DeWitt equation is even more fundamental than the basic equation of quantum theory, the Schrödinger equation. We still should remember that we are in the situation when no observational data can confirm or reject the fundamental status of the Wheeler–DeWitt equation, so we can give just indirect arguments in favor of or against it, grounded on mathematical consistency and physical relevance. I shall present the analysis of the situation and comparison of the standard Wheeler–DeWitt approach with the extended phase space approach to quantization of gravity. In my analysis, I suppose, first, that a future quantum theory of gravity must be applicable to all phenomena from the early universe to quantum effects in strong gravitational fields, in the latter case, the state of the observer (the choice of a reference frame) may appear to be significant. Second, I suppose that the equation for the wave function of the universe must not be postulated but derived by means of a mathematically consistent procedure, which exists in path integral quantization. When applying this procedure to any gravitating system, one should take into account features of gravity, namely, nontrivial spacetime topology and possible absence of asymptotic states. The Schrödinger equation has been derived early for cosmological models with a finite number of degrees of freedom, and just recently it has been found for the spherically symmetric model which is a simplest model with an infinite number of degrees of freedom. The structure of the Schrödinger equation and its general solution appears to be very similar in these cases. The obtained results give grounds to say that the Schrödinger equation retains its fundamental meaning in constructing quantum theory of gravity.
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Re: Stephen Hawking last book

#5  Postby Tuor » Mar 23, 2020 5:27 pm

So sorry about my bad english. Thx for the answers.

After i posted the initial paradox i actually came with another time paradox.

Lets imagine a Black Hole, inside the BH lies the singularity, a corpse of unknown matter with infinitesimal density that concentrates all the mass of the BH. Suposely, inside that singularity there is no time at all. Yet, if space-time is the same shit, as it seems, there isn't any time for any gravity interaction to happen, because gravity spreads at speed of light, a fixed speed over a fixed area at a given time. But BH do have gravitical influence for light-years around them. And gravitical waves have been detected.

Point, is there any margin left for a universal time constant?
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Re: Stephen Hawking last book

#6  Postby aufbahrung » Mar 23, 2020 5:51 pm

I recall time coming in two flavors, read it in New Scientist. It is possible long time is much longer than the universe we inhabit and is where God, or a higher intelligence agency, resides to design in a Matrix simulation manner this universe and its Big Ben which contains our sort of time, short time, and a vague indicator for long time. No doubt it is tragic that a hundred years will pass before someone figures out what I mean here.
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Re: Stephen Hawking last book

#7  Postby newolder » Mar 23, 2020 6:17 pm

Tuor wrote:...

Point, is there any margin left for a universal time constant?


No. Leonard Susskind has a lecture entitled, "Inside Black Holes". Great fun for an hour or so on lockdown...

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Re: Stephen Hawking last book

#8  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 23, 2020 6:29 pm

aufbahrung wrote:I recall time coming in two flavors, read it in New Scientist. It is possible long time is much longer than the universe we inhabit and is where God, or a higher intelligence agency, resides to design in a Matrix simulation manner this universe and its Big Ben which contains our sort of time, short time, and a vague indicator for long time. No doubt it is tragic that a hundred years will pass before someone figures out what I mean here.



It might take you 100 years to figure out what you mean, but the length of time it takes you to get a clue doesn't suggest there's anything of worth contained therein.
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