johnbrandt wrote:I'll mention the elephant in the room...

If western countries seem to be able to control thier population, then they aren't the problem and don't have to "change thier ways". It's countries like China (doing it's best, but with such a population mass to begin with it's hard), and India (actually aiming for a figure up towards two billion as if it's a "good thing"), and especially poor African countries where a massive family is seen as somehow a good idea.

The well-educated well-off countries generally face thier responsabilities and keep a lower birth rate...it's the ones who have no intention of doing so that are the problem, and I've got no idea how you can convince these countries to do otherwise. It isn't up to us to change, it's up to them to realise they have a problem and face it.

johnbrandt wrote:Well since you mentioned global warming, I see the exact same problem here with population control...what is the use of the west "moving first" and changing it's ways, if billions of people in other countries are allowed to just keep on doing as they wish? How does that change anything? Or do we just naively trust that the majority of the worlds population will "follow us"...?

The world's population will grow to 9 billion over the next 50 years -- and only by raising the living standards of the poorest can we check population growth.

johnbrandt wrote:Well since you mentioned global warming, I see the exact same problem here with population control...what is the use of the west "moving first" and changing it's ways, if billions of people in other countries are allowed to just keep on doing as they wish? How does that change anything? Or do we just naively trust that the majority of the worlds population will "follow us"...?

Emmeline wrote:I watched this last year and found it very informative re: population.

The world's population will grow to 9 billion over the next 50 years -- and only by raising the living standards of the poorest can we check population growth.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg[/youtube]

johnbrandt wrote:I'll mention the elephant in the room...

If western countries seem to be able to control thier population, then they aren't the problem and don't have to "change thier ways". It's countries like China (doing it's best, but with such a population mass to begin with it's hard), and India (actually aiming for a figure up towards two billion as if it's a "good thing"), and especially poor African countries where a massive family is seen as somehow a good idea.

The well-educated well-off countries generally face thier responsabilities and keep a lower birth rate...it's the ones who have no intention of doing so that are the problem, and I've got no idea how you can convince these countries to do otherwise. It isn't up to us to change, it's up to them to realise they have a problem and face it.

'Being Green' is no longer enough. "Whole Earth Discipline" is Stewart Brand's wake up call for the environmental movement, and his message is hard-hitting: unless environmentalists keep up with new science, they will become part of the problem. It is an exhilarating piece of writing and bang-on zeitgeist. Three profound transformations are underway on Earth: climate change, urbanization and biotechnology. In response to these seismic changes - and challenges - Steward Brand argues that the environmental movement must reverse some long-held opinions, and embrace tools and disciplines that it has traditionally distrusted - such as science and engineering - in order to forestall the cataclysmic deterioration of the earth's resources. "Whole Earth Discipline" shatters a number of environmental myths, and presents radical, counterintuitive observations - cities are actually greener than the countryside, nuclear power is the future of energy, and genetic engineering is the key to crop and land management. With a combination of scientific rigor and blazing advocacy, Brand shows us exactly where the sources of our dilemmas lie and offers a bold and creative set of policies and solutions for producing a more sustainable society.

Sovereign wrote:Funny thing about birth control rates and women empowerment, I heard a fundie argue that this was the reason it was bad to let women go to school.

MoonLit wrote:

Sovereign wrote:Funny thing about birth control rates and women empowerment, I heard a fundie argue that this was the reason it was bad to let women go to school.

What reason?

MoonLit wrote:

Sovereign wrote:Funny thing about birth control rates and women empowerment, I heard a fundie argue that this was the reason it was bad to let women go to school.

What reason?

MacIver wrote:And God told us to be fruitful.

Just look at the Catholics.

Sovereign wrote:

MoonLit wrote:

Sovereign wrote:Funny thing about birth control rates and women empowerment, I heard a fundie argue that this was the reason it was bad to let women go to school.

What reason?

MacIver wrote:And God told us to be fruitful.

Just look at the Catholics.

and something about minority babies born are outpacing white babies being born.

MoonLit wrote:Ah k. Did you ask the fundie what his/her reasoning was behind that statement? I've seen that statement before, "Education and/or birth control is bad because then women either put off having kids or have none at all!" but it's always been from an asshole only. When someone makes a statement like that, I can't help but wonder what their reasoning is; turns out, it's always been that they're just fucked in the head and are either sexist, racist or just both. (At least from my observations).

cavarka9 wrote:what about a deal is made, developing countries provide labor and numbers and after a while they come back here and settle down, that helps both doesnt it?.