Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

Does consciousness survive death?

Discussions on astrology, homeopathy and superstition etc.

Moderators: kiore, The_Metatron, Blip

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#681  Postby chairman bill » Sep 15, 2012 7:34 pm

Rhubis wrote:... There is a study in a number of UK and US hospitals where images are on the top of cupboards and shelves in operating rooms so that if someone has an NDE and is floating above their body they should notice them, I can't find the results of this study at present but when i find it (or if someone else manages to find it) i shall post a link for it here ...


Sam Parnia's studies.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1JarYYWDfQ[/youtube]
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
User avatar
chairman bill
RS Donator
 
Posts: 28351
Male

Country: UK: fucked since 2010
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#682  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 15, 2012 7:34 pm

Metatron: I have today (as well as my ordinary life... as Dr Parisetti said - words to the effect "do you all have jobs, families, lives...how can you all post so much...?")


Om shanty, om Siva - all dwell on the words of the Master, for through his Words we shall find everlasting Truth!

How about the fact that there are lots of people all posting once or twice, and there's only one of you posting once or twice? Wouldn't that account for the difference in numbers of posts between you, and 'us', the faceless mass you so routinely demonize?
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 28980
Age: 45
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#683  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 15, 2012 7:36 pm

Before I go onto some of the data (and here, I have to remind you, I have, actually, described some of the available data to you all, but you ("conveniently") ignore it.. eg, the fact that there are records galore of blind (and deaf) people who have had NDE's.. and, whilst, for eg, in a deep coma, or whilst doctor(s) are desperately trying to resuscitate them, they have had an NDE, wherein they actually SEE things. Things which, once they have been resuscitated, and have "recovered" to whatever degree, they describe to the medical staff.. and those medical staff make enquiries, etc, and the things which the BLIND person SAW, whilst having the NDE, are all VERIFIED. Ie, these are what are called "veridical NDE's". I told you of at least one book that is about this very subject: "Mindsight", by Kenneth Ring (Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Univ. of California, San Francisco). Published 1999.
Ie, blind people who have had NDE's, wherein they SEE things which are subsequently verified. Such things as: whilst having the NDE, their consciousness goes to the nearby waiting room, where anxious relatives are waiting... and the blind person is able to SEE what items of clothing their anxious relatives are wearing... describing, exactly, the items of apparel, the style, the colour, etc etc. And these descriptions are subsequently verified. Ie, the person who is, in their ordinary physical life, blind, whilst having the NDE (which truly does mean when their (eternal) consciousness is outside their physical body, and can thus travel to wherever it wants to... ) - and so, in this example, the blind person, when their physical body is on an operating table being worked on by doctor(s), the consciousness of that person travels (for our eternal spiritual body is able to move at will, anywhere, simply by thinking of where you want to be) to the nearby waiting room, sees his/her very stressed, worried relatives, and SEES what they are each wearing. And then, when they have been resuscitated, they tell the medical staff that they SAW their relatives wearing, for eg "my husband was there, he was wearing a navy blue shirt, with the cuffs turned up almost to the elbows, and he had his glasses on, and he was sitting in the chair, with his head in his hands, crying "oh, Elizabeth, please don't die, please don't die..." . THAT is the sort of detail that BLIND people having an NDE are able to give to the medical staff, after they have been resuscitated. Other details that blind people are able to tell that they SAW, whilst having the NDE, is, for eg, that they say "whilst I was "out of it", I was able to SEE myself hovering above my physical body..and I saw that there were 5 people in the operating theatre... 3 doctors, and 2 nurses... one of the nurses was black, and one was white. Two of the doctors were black, and one was a Chinese man".
And then, having told the medical staff those details (remember, these things have been related by BLIND people who've had NDE's...ie, people who, in their ordinary physical life, are blind... many of them having been blind from birth.
And these descriptions of what they saw are then investigated, and are VERIFIED. So, in the above example, the medical staff are stunned, and they say "oh my god, how could you have known that there WERE 5 medical staff in the theatre, that 2 of the doctors were black, and that one of the doctors is Chinese...and that one of the nurses is white, the other one black..".

THAT is the sort of VERIDICAL data that is in existence.



Your notion of providing data makes the term 'providing data' no longer have any meaning.

You have simply written stuff. Providing data would be to provision links to independently conducted research, so that we could, you know, look at the data.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 28980
Age: 45
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#684  Postby chairman bill » Sep 15, 2012 7:37 pm

BTW, ignore the shit about brain death. It's bollocks. People being resuscitated have intermittent bloodflow to the brain, and intermittent, subliminal awareness is more than possible, as are hallucinations.
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
User avatar
chairman bill
RS Donator
 
Posts: 28351
Male

Country: UK: fucked since 2010
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#685  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 15, 2012 7:38 pm

We are having a meal in a short while.


This isn't Facebook.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 28980
Age: 45
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#686  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Sep 15, 2012 7:45 pm

chairman bill wrote:
Macroinvertebrate wrote:... That makes me a ... sex god.


'Tis true. At least, that's what Justin Beiber says.


Lame.
It's so cold in the D.
User avatar
Macroinvertebrate
 
Name: Gawd
Posts: 806
Age: 44
Male

Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#687  Postby chairman bill » Sep 15, 2012 7:49 pm

Macroinvertebrate wrote:
chairman bill wrote:
Macroinvertebrate wrote:... That makes me a ... sex god.


'Tis true. At least, that's what Justin Beiber says.


Lame.


Well that's what everyone else says. Who to believe? :smile:
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
User avatar
chairman bill
RS Donator
 
Posts: 28351
Male

Country: UK: fucked since 2010
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#688  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Sep 15, 2012 7:53 pm

chairman bill wrote:
Macroinvertebrate wrote:
chairman bill wrote:
Macroinvertebrate wrote:... That makes me a ... sex god.


'Tis true. At least, that's what Justin Beiber says.


Lame.


Well that's what everyone else says. Who to believe? :smile:


Your replies are not clever or funny in the least. All you are doing is making yourself look like a prick. Or, was that your intent? Good job, if that's the case. :thumbup:
It's so cold in the D.
User avatar
Macroinvertebrate
 
Name: Gawd
Posts: 806
Age: 44
Male

Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#689  Postby chairman bill » Sep 15, 2012 7:57 pm

Image
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
User avatar
chairman bill
RS Donator
 
Posts: 28351
Male

Country: UK: fucked since 2010
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#690  Postby Rhubis » Sep 15, 2012 7:58 pm

Unfortunatly the study i mentioned is Sam Parnia's aware study (http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=38) and he has yet to release his results (probably being released next year with his book). Although in interviews with him he believes that out of body experiences are "illusion”, and a “trick of the mind”. http://www.skeptiko.com/sam-parnia-claims-near-death-experience-probably-an-illusion/ so unless he hasn't seen any of the data i'm reasonably sure we can guess the outcome.

Edit: added link to study description.
Last edited by Rhubis on Sep 15, 2012 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rhubis
 
Posts: 123
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#691  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Sep 15, 2012 7:59 pm

chairman bill wrote:Image


Congrats, you're 13. Don't worry, puberty doesn't last forever, dickhead.
It's so cold in the D.
User avatar
Macroinvertebrate
 
Name: Gawd
Posts: 806
Age: 44
Male

Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#692  Postby Steve » Sep 15, 2012 8:04 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
We are having a meal in a short while.


This isn't Facebook.

Easy, tiger. If you don't eat you don't shit and if you don't shit you die... This stuff is deadly serious.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny
Blue Mountain Center of Meditation
User avatar
Steve
RS Donator
 
Posts: 6908
Age: 66
Male

New Zealand (nz)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#693  Postby chairman bill » Sep 15, 2012 8:05 pm

Macroinvertebrate wrote:
chairman bill wrote:Image


Congrats, you're 13. Don't worry, puberty doesn't last forever, dickhead.


FFS. Sense of humour failure or what. Get a fucking grip.
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
User avatar
chairman bill
RS Donator
 
Posts: 28351
Male

Country: UK: fucked since 2010
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#694  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Sep 15, 2012 8:11 pm

chairman bill wrote:
Macroinvertebrate wrote:
chairman bill wrote:Image


Congrats, you're 13. Don't worry, puberty doesn't last forever, dickhead.


FFS. Sense of humour failure or what. Get a fucking grip.


Yeah, exactly, you don't have a sense of humour so nothing you say is funny or clever. Funny that! Seriously though, there is life outside of the internet. (almost 15,000 posts here....now that's funny!) :lol:
It's so cold in the D.
User avatar
Macroinvertebrate
 
Name: Gawd
Posts: 806
Age: 44
Male

Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#695  Postby christine » Sep 16, 2012 12:01 pm

I am only going to post this post, and then I, like Dr Calvi-Parisetti, will resign myself from this forum.

Fisrtly, a couple of remarks. And then I will sign off with a further example of the wealth of data available.

Firstly, to Rhubis. Post number 668, on 15th September.

He said "for someone so widely (if you count one subject as widely..) read...".

For your information, I am widely read on a number of disparate subjects; as well as the spiritual truths of life, I am also very widely read on i) medieval history (it's one of my passions... I've read over 150 books on it); wine (I'm a connoisseur, and have read over 30 books on it); genealogy (I'm a genealogist, have qualifications in the subject, and have traced my own "physical dimension") genealogy back on over 70 lines, back to 1598 Devon; and my fiance's ancestry, currently researched back to 1750s).. and other subjects, too.

Second point: this is a reply to a post by Metatron: the post was on the 14th September.
I can't now find it, I think it was addressed to Dr Piero Calvi-Parisetti; it was definitely either addressed to him or to myself. Anyhow, he said "...I think you and many millions more who think similarly are simply afraid of death, and its finality. I think all this claptrap is made-up bullshit in a lame attempt (though not lame enough for millions of people) to salve that fear".

My reply: it is not made-up, the wealth of data is real and genuine (I will give you a further example of the data, after this paragraph, and then I am signing off from this forum. For I work with the truth). All the many, many millions of informed people worldwide are not doing this through being "afraid of death". We all know it is the real, genuine truth.

I will give you two further examples of the data, here. And then I am resigning myself from this forum.

Firstly: this is an example of a veridical NDE. Ie, one in which the person who had the NDE, experienced something specific in it, and then, after having been resuscitated, what she had experienced, was verified as being the absolute truth.
There are numerous examples of veridical NDE's; and this is one of them - it is that of a very young child. Which is important. For one of the sceptics' "arguments" against the veracity of the nature of NDE's is "oh, they must have been imagining it, as a way of trying to confirm their blind religious belief".
Well, many very small children do not have "blind religious beliefs".
This example is one of the countless numbers of veridical NDE's on record.
The adult woman who related it to a researcher was referring to the NDE she herself had had, when she was a child of 5 years.
"when I was five years old, I contracted meningitis, and fell into a coma. I "died", and drifted into a safe and black void where I felt no fear and no pain. I felt at home in this place... I saw a little girl of about 10 years old. I sensed that she recognised me. We hugged, and then she told me "I'm your sister. I died a month after I was born. I was named after your grandmother. Our parents called me Rietje for short". She kissed me, and I felt her warmth and love. "You must go now", she said.. in a flash, I was back in my (physical) body. I opened my eyes and saw the happy and relieved looks on my parents' faces. When I told them about my experience, they initially dismissed it as a dream... I made a drawing of my angel sister who had welcomed me and repeated everything she'd told me. My parents were so shocked that they panicked. They got up and left the room. After a while they returned. They confirmed that they had indeed lost a daughter called Rietje. She had died of poisoning about a year after I was born. They had decided not to tell me and my brother until we were old enough to understand the meaning of life and death".

This comes from the excellent book by the spiritually-enlightened cardiologist, Dr Pim van Lommel: it is in his very high-quality book (published 2010) called "Consciousness beyond life: the science of the Near-Death Experience".

Explanation as to why the 5-yr-old girl perceived her older sister as "looking about 10 years old". Her parents told her that their elder daughter had "died" about a year before the 5-year-old was born. The elder daughter had told her sister (the one having the NDE) that she had "died" a month after birth. It is a fact that when we are in the afterlife, we are able (as a result of the malleability [through the power of the non-physical, eternal mind} of our eternal spiritual body) to choose what our spirit bodies look like; ie, we can manifest at whatever age we wish.
There is one hell of a lot of data in existence which supports this.

And the second (and my final communication on this forum, after which I am self-resigning) example of the wealth of multi-faceted, definite data re. the fact we all survive (in energy form) the very illusory event that is wrongly termed "death";

This is a case whereby a very sceptical American woman went to a now very well-known American medium called Sonia Choquette.
The sceptical woman did not believe in anything spiritual, she thought death was the end of everything, and she (blindly) assumed that all mediums must be frauds/charlatans.
NB: the medium she saw, Sonia Choquette, was, at the time, only 17 years old. She had been giving readings as the medium she was, and is, for several years (for mediumship very often manifests in people at a very early age - for most mediums are born with their spiritual gifts of clairvoyance, clairaudience, and clairsentience).

The first thing the medium said to the sceptical woman was "my guide in spirit is telling me you will eventually be married".
To that, the woman expressed huge scepticism. "I don't think that can be so, for I haven't even got a boyfriend", she said. And the medium, when relating this case, said that the tone of the woman's voice made it very clear that she, the sceptical woman, very much wished she could be married, but did not think it would happen for her.
So... the medium continued. "Yes, my guide in spirit is telling me that you will definitely be married. They tell me that your future husband will be shorter than you, and will not be white-skinned. Oh, and they also tell me that you will move to Guam".

On hearing that, the sceptical American woman said "oh, now I KNOW you're crazy... don't give up the day-job, love..".
And left.
Punchline: about 3 years later, the medium, Sonia Choquette, received in the mail, a postcard. With a picture of a beautiful island. Of Guam. The postcard was from the sceptical woman to whom she had given a reading, 3 years earlier.
The woman wrote, on the postcard "you may not remember me, but about 3 years ago, you gave me a reading. I was very, very, sceptical. You told me that your guide in spirit told you that I would eventually get married. You said you were told that my husband would be shorter than me, and that he would not be white-skinned. You also said your guide told you that we would move to Guam. You will recall I was very ridiculing of what you said you had been told. Well, listen to this. About 6 months after my reading with you, I met a Filipino man. He was, of course, not white-skinned. And he is, indeed, shorter than me. We fell in love, and got married. He works in the Forces. About 6 months ago, he was posted to... Guam. So we came out here to live. JUST as you told me your guide had told you would be the case".

The reason why the medium's spirit guide (in the spirit dimensions) was able to tell the woman of definite events in what we on Earth call the "future" is because (however it works) the Intelligent Power behind everything in existence (the REAL meaning of the word "God") has made it be that, however impossible it of course SOUNDS, what we call the "future" has already happened, and is visible, from the sub-atomic energy dimensions of this multi-dimensional spiritual cosmos.
THAT is why the medium's guides (and the sceptical woman's relatives in spirit would have known, in advance, about the sceptical woman's future marriage, too) in spirit already knew about the sceptical woman's definite future: that is why they knew that some months after the reading, she would meet a Filipino man (a man not white-skinned, and that he would be shorter than her), that they would fall in love, and marry; that is why they also knew that he would be posted to Guam, in regard to his work, and that that would be why she and her future husband would move to Guam; that is why the medium's guide was able to tell the woman, months before she'd even met her future husband, "you will move to Guam".

There are literally millions of equally watertight cases available out there, for you all to access.
There are millions of very high-quality cases, covering the 12+ aspects of the multi-faceted data.

I'll repeat something I gave you all in a post a few days ago: why don't you research the very high-quality aspect of the survival of "death" data called "Peak-in-Darien deathbed visions". The very nature of this aspect of the data is what makes it so significant.

And now I am self-resigning from this forum.
User avatar
christine
Banned User
 
Name: Christine Thompson
Posts: 30

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#696  Postby Rhubis » Sep 16, 2012 12:09 pm

Oh great, again you didn't post any data but just an explanation of data. How the hell do we know that you aren't just making this shit up? POST SOME REFERENCES.
Rhubis
 
Posts: 123
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#697  Postby chairman bill » Sep 16, 2012 12:19 pm

No data, not even an attempt to engage with any of the points raised, questions asked, nothing. Not a sausage, bugger all.

Christine, your case for spiritual survival of death is less impressive than even my poor attempts at humour on this thread (though I admit, some might not agree with me). As I get nearer to the total of 15,000 posts, and confirmation of what a sad git I am (note to self, must get a life), I'm happy to rack up one more, just to say, your contribution will not be missed in the slightest
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
User avatar
chairman bill
RS Donator
 
Posts: 28351
Male

Country: UK: fucked since 2010
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#698  Postby theropod » Sep 16, 2012 12:42 pm


!
GENERAL MODNOTE
Christine, via PM, has requested her membership be terminated and the moderation team has effected this status change.

Thanks,
Theropod
Sleeping in the hen house doesn't make you a chicken.
User avatar
theropod
RS Donator
 
Name: Roger
Posts: 7529
Age: 68
Male

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#699  Postby Fallible » Sep 16, 2012 12:43 pm

How coincidental.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Death - a correct scientific approach for surviving it

#700  Postby Steve » Sep 16, 2012 1:04 pm

Does her membership have an afterlife? Maybe she is still floating in the ethers? That would be nice for her.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny
Blue Mountain Center of Meditation
User avatar
Steve
RS Donator
 
Posts: 6908
Age: 66
Male

New Zealand (nz)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Pseudoscience

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 0 guests