GrahamH wrote:That's all good then.

Their branch of extremist Islam is something that is shown to be very attractive to some people, and not just the poor, poorly educated or local populace.

If we could better understand the appeal maybe something could be done about it. How successful are the de-radicalisation people? Is there anything to be done to meet the non-extreme needs and aspirations of those otherwise attracted to ISIS?

Discussing the appeal of ISIS is the equivalent of discussing in 1940 during the Blitz the fairness/unfairness of the Versailles on post WW1 Germany. It's gone beyond that. Why are you trying to de-radicalise people?. If they have actually joined ISIS then the only action is either to kill them or lock them up for a very long time (where they may or may not be re radicalised after 20 years in jail will be a matter for their probation officer). ISIS is a criminal organisation in exactly the same way the SS were.

After Western forces (or local allies) are controlling the Middle East then you can discuss future actions , until then its about killing/locking up our enemies

mrjonno wrote:

GrahamH wrote:That's all good then.

Their branch of extremist Islam is something that is shown to be very attractive to some people, and not just the poor, poorly educated or local populace.

If we could better understand the appeal maybe something could be done about it. How successful are the de-radicalisation people? Is there anything to be done to meet the non-extreme needs and aspirations of those otherwise attracted to ISIS?

Discussing the appeal of ISIS is the equivalent of discussing in 1940 during the Blitz the fairness/unfairness of the Versailles on post WW1 Germany. It's gone beyond that. Why are you trying to de-radicalise people?. If they have actually joined ISIS then the only action is either to kill them or lock them up for a very long time

There is also the option to prevent them joining, prevent them becoming radicalised. Work out why they join up and dissuade them from doing so.

ISIS have a clearly defined based on operation destroy that and you will at least seriously harm if not destroy the hope of their supporters at home in the West. That's a very good start.

I get it you want potential but not active supporters to love us, I don't not interested in their love. I want them to feel their is no point in joining ISIS and that all hope is lost. If they can't adapt to live in the west Instead of going into bars and blowing themselves up maybe they will just overdose of pills and die in agony in their own beds. War is about about destroying hope as it is about killing and taking territory. Fear is the key they must fear us far more than we fear them

The nonsense of MrJonno's historically proven to fail strategy aside, I feel compelled to ask...

mrjonno wrote: Fear is the key they must fear us far more than we fear them

...how on earth do you conceive that they might come to fear us through military action?

Sendraks wrote:The nonsense of MrJonno's historically proven to fail strategy aside, I feel compelled to ask...

mrjonno wrote: Fear is the key they must fear us far more than we fear them

...how on earth do you conceive that they might come to fear us through military action?

It's one thing to die gloriously blowing yourself up in a bar somewhat less gloriously if its in your sleep from a drone. For the ones who really want to die then we must give them what they want but for others less enthusiastic they need to be made to realise that their sacrifice really will be pointless

mrjonno wrote:ISIS have a clearly defined based on operation destroy that and you will at least seriously harm if not destroy the hope of their supporters at home in the West. That's a very good start.

I get it you want potential but not active supporters to love us, I don't not interested in their love. I want them to feel their is no point in joining ISIS and that all hope is lost. If they can't adapt to live in the west Instead of going into bars and blowing themselves up maybe they will just overdose of pills and die in agony in their own beds. War is about about destroying hope as it is about killing and taking territory. Fear is the key they must fear us far more than we fear them

There is no easy or permanent solution to something like ISIS. I noticed I have been feeling frustrated at the lack of progress in the struggle against IS, but maybe what the US is doing is the right approach after all. Just fence them in, drone some of the leading figures and power brokers, and let them self destruct.

If "the Islamic State" fails spectacularly, that might be a huge blow to all the figures who want to introduce sharia anywhere around the world, the Hizb ut Tahrir and those types, who I think are more dangerous to Western societies than violent groups like ISIS. Terrorist attacks that kill 100 people or so are tragic, but they are not a fundamental threat to Western civilization.

I agree there is no easy or permanent solution and I'm not even sure we should be looking for a solution. This is about control. We can control and reduce the damage this infection causes on mankind. So what if we have to spend the next 50 years doing it. Reserve 1% of GDP for vermin control. Just because you can't cure a disease doesn't mean you can't treat it

mrjonno wrote:
It's one thing to die gloriously blowing yourself up in a bar somewhat less gloriously if its in your sleep from a drone.

That's really not a big fear for them, if it is a fear at all. They really don't care how they die, its all gloriously done for allah.

So, about this "them fearing us thing" as a result of military how does it work again?

You want to know what they fear? A world where their belief system is irrelevant. A world where people question ideological nonsense and know it for the irrelevance that it is, because they're not poor and uneducated. A world where you can't impose your ideology on others because you happen to run a country which produces lots of oil, because the rest of the world is no longer dependent on that.

That's what they fear and this is not achieved through military action.