A bit to haphazard and joking to serve as solid debunking of the project.

I wish people would stop giving this place airtime. If it weren't for all the pointing and laughing at and "debunking" done of it the only people spending money to visit it would be American creationists who were already teaching their kids the same shit at home.

Pseudo science always needs to be exposed because ignoring it will not make it go away. But more importantly it could
plant seeds of doubt in those who would otherwise be inclined to accept it. Teaching children lies is both intellectually
and morally indefensible since they do not know any better. This needs to be tackled with extreme prejudice at every
available opportunity. Hoping that it will go away is not the answer

surreptitious57 wrote:Pseudo science always needs to be exposed because ignoring it will not make it go away.

And this is precisely the rational behind the makers of the movie "We Believe in Dinosaurs" who were recently interviews by Aron Ra in last weeks episode of the "The Ra Men."



And I agree with them. That notion that such things can just be ignored in the hope they will go away, is only going to work in the extremely long term, assuming natural wastage works in favour of getting rid of the views of whatever you want rid of. And as has been shown in the US and Europe, backwards and irrational views have a nasty way of hibernating in a population and resurfacing in unfortunate ways.

The difficulty lies in making the appropriate challenges to woo based beliefs in such a way that people listen and learn.

Once is enough. The amount of free publicity that place gets thanks to people "debunking" it's claims is enormous.

Once is nowhere near enough. The point at which it is enough is when no one accepts it anymore. Till that point is reached
it should continue to be exposed with extreme prejudice and treated with the contempt it deserves. There is no justifiable reason to be filling childrens heads with demonstrably false bullshit. People who do that are dangerous and therefore need
to be stopped. And the best way to do that is through education. And if it takes forever then so be it but it is the only way

I think there must be at least some truth in Rachel's point. Otherwise why is Ken Ham agreeing to it? If it's purely injurious to his efforts, surely he's going to ban them from filming, let alone take personal part?

There's an old saying that there is no such thing as bad publicity, and it might not be gospel truth, but there's a kernel in there.

It is a public place and so filming should be permitted. Ken Ham did invite Bill Nye but that can always be counter productive I actually find him quite pleasant but my problem is not with him but what he is promoting. This bullshit needs to be tackled head on and relentlessly so. Of course you cannot convince everyone but you focus on those you can convince. I actually feel sorry for Ken because right at the very beginning of the video he states that he does not think humans are animals so he is in no position to be educating children at all with that degree of ignorance. Now he can think what ever he wants himself. How ever filling the heads of children with that bullshit is not on. Since they do not know any better. Forty per cent of Americans already think the Earth is no more than ten thousand years old and Ken is doing his best to make sure it is even more. That is not acceptable. So it must be vigorously challenged at every available opportunity. Complacency is simply not an option here

Is it a public place? I thought it was privately owned and charged an admission fee?

If that's the case, is it not 100% at the discretion of the owner to allow or disallow a film crew in, in the US?

For those that can stomach it, the exact circumstances of the invite from the horse's mouth, can be found here:
https://answersingenesis.org/ministry-n ... encounter/

I think it is a public place on the grounds that anyone can have access to it. The fact that it charges a
fee does not negate this. Plenty of other public places such as museums and art galleries do the same

surreptitious57 wrote:It is a public place and so filming should be permitted. Ken Ham did invite Bill Nye but that can always be counter productive I actually find him quite pleasant but my problem is not with him but what he is promoting. This bullshit needs to be tackled head on and relentlessly so. Of course you cannot convince everyone but you focus on those you can convince. I actually feel sorry for Ken because right at the very beginning of the video he states that he does not think humans are animals so he is in no position to be educating children at all with that degree of ignorance. Now he can think what ever he wants himself. How ever filling the heads of children with that bullshit is not on. Since they do not know any better. Forty per cent of Americans already think the Earth is no more than ten thousand years old and Ken is doing his best to make sure it is even more. That is not acceptable. So it must be vigorously challenged at every available opportunity. Complacency is simply not an option here

You’re correct of course, but it’s a brutally hard nut to crack. Since I’ve been there, done that, I know of the intense indoctrination that takes place. You live in a bubble (echo chamber) and even stepping outside of it, when going to school, shopping or whatever, they pre-arm you with what to expect. Basically, Satan is just waiting in the wings ready to grab you and take your soul. The only way to avoid it is by carrying your bubble with you and protecting yourself from any and all challenges to your beliefs.

Facts and data fall off of you like water off of a duck’s back. All (most anyway) arguments that you’ll encounter have an answer that is supplied to you in advance so you’re well prepared. Anything that comes at you as a surprise is simply Satan becoming more and more clever.

It took me years to finally break away, yet despite that; I’m at a loss as to what method would be effective.

Generally speaking ‘like-minded associates with like-minded’ and that can undo any positive work that schooling tries to accomplish. When I was a fundie no amount of data, schooling or others’ influence had even an iota of effect on me. I was programmed to know that I, and my fellow Pentecostals, held the truth. Any attempt to discredit that was simply the work of Satan.

DoctorE wrote:

About as interesting as watching a reasoned argument with a toadstool. After the novelty of its absurdity wears off it just becomes moot.

This reminds me of the massive thread on RD forum about the flood.

surreptitious57 wrote:Pseudo science always needs to be exposed because ignoring it will not make it go away. But more importantly it could plant seeds of doubt in those who would otherwise be inclined to accept it. Teaching children lies is both intellectually and morally indefensible since they do not know any better. This needs to be tackled with extreme prejudice at every available opportunity. Hoping that it will go away is not the answer

That's not how you do it. If you want to plant seeds of doubt, you have to make his followers stop seeing him as a figure of authority. This could be done by, say, exposing Ham as having subscription to gay porn sites. If you need more ideas, please refer to your government's manual on psychological warfare for more effective solutions.

What a torturous video. Couldn't make it past 2 minutes.