Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else below.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#1  Postby Macdoc » Oct 04, 2017 11:22 pm

Closer and closer to first principles seawater plus sunshine = hydrogen.

Who the needs fusion

https://phys.org/news/2017-10-nanomaterial-hydrogen-fuel-seawater.html
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 11804
Age: 70
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#2  Postby juju7 » Oct 05, 2017 8:39 am

PV + electrolysis = H2

I can not see the point here.
User avatar
juju7
 
Posts: 780

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#3  Postby GrahamH » Oct 05, 2017 9:39 am

The point is presumably efficiency. Avoid losses in the PVs and use the solar energy more directly.

It's possible to produce hydrogen to power fuel cells by extracting the gas from seawater, but the electricity required to do it makes the process costly. UCF researcher Yang Yang has come up with a new hybrid nanomaterial that harnesses solar energy and uses it to generate hydrogen from seawater more cheaply and efficiently than current materials.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-nanomater ... r.html#jCp
Last edited by GrahamH on Oct 05, 2017 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why do you think that?
GrahamH
 
Posts: 17703

Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#4  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 05, 2017 10:21 am

Macdoc wrote:Closer and closer to first principles seawater plus sunshine = hydrogen.

Who the needs fusion

...

Have you worked out what area of solar panels (of either H2 generation or direct photo-voltaic kind) would be needed to avoid fusion once the Pu and U are used up?
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14519
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#5  Postby GrahamH » Oct 05, 2017 10:41 am

Here's one estimate. The area of Spain
If solar is 20% efficient (as it has been in lab tests) at turning solar energy into power, we'd only need to cover a land area about the size of Spain to power the entire Earth renewably in 2030.


Image
Why do you think that?
GrahamH
 
Posts: 17703

Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#6  Postby Macdoc » Oct 06, 2017 2:59 am

And that is ignoring the ocean ....the basis of this technology.
Transmission and storage remains more of an issue than actual generation. A hydrogen economy by and large eliminates the storage issue tho solid storage is still in early stages,
Even wind is now established as a floating ( tho tethered ) source.
Ocean and sunshine = useable transportable fuel. Bit of a grail that. :coffee:
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 11804
Age: 70
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#7  Postby juju7 » Oct 06, 2017 10:39 am

GrahamH wrote:The point is presumably efficiency. Avoid losses in the PVs and use the solar energy more directly.

It's possible to produce hydrogen to power fuel cells by extracting the gas from seawater, but the electricity required to do it makes the process costly. UCF researcher Yang Yang has come up with a new hybrid nanomaterial that harnesses solar energy and uses it to generate hydrogen from seawater more cheaply and efficiently than current materials.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-nanomater ... r.html#jCp


One presumes that the seawater would have to be pumped into the catalyst compartments, probably on land. That means it is not directly using solar energy anyway. Then there is the practicality of harvesting the H2 from over a large area. Problem.
PVs do not have this issue.
User avatar
juju7
 
Posts: 780

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#8  Postby Macdoc » Oct 06, 2017 11:03 am

You have zero basis for those conclusions.
I'd trust the scientists involved regarding scalability than an ill informed comment with no support
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 11804
Age: 70
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#9  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 06, 2017 1:52 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
Macdoc wrote:Closer and closer to first principles seawater plus sunshine = hydrogen.

Who the needs fusion

...

Have you worked out what area of solar panels (of either H2 generation or direct photo-voltaic kind) would be needed to avoid fusion once the Pu and U are used up?

You don't appear to have addressed this issue yet, but is fundamental to whether the world will need fusion power.
May The Voice be with you!
DavidMcC
 
Name: David McCulloch
Posts: 14519
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kigdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#10  Postby juju7 » Oct 09, 2017 10:25 am

Macdoc wrote:You have zero basis for those conclusions.

:plot:You know this how :scratch:
User avatar
juju7
 
Posts: 780

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#11  Postby Macdoc » Oct 09, 2017 10:52 am

There is nothing in the article nor presented to support this presumption ....it is entirely idle speculation...

DC
One presumes that the seawater would have to be pumped into the catalyst compartments, probably on land. That means it is not directly using solar energy anyway. Then there is the practicality of harvesting the H2 from over a large area. Problem.


Put up or shut up is the general rule in broad stroke claims like his.....nothing was "put up" at all...merely idle speculation and claiming it's "not directly using solar energy anyways" ....is just hilariously wrong.

Sun shining on seawater in the presence of a catalyst is about as direct a conversion to hydrogen by way of solar energy as is possible

It just needs scale .....and the scientists involved clearly expect it to scale ..hence the comment about Florida having loads of both. :roll: :coffee:
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 11804
Age: 70
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#12  Postby juju7 » Oct 11, 2017 8:42 am

Macdoc wrote:
Put up or shut up is the general rule in broad stroke claims like his.....nothing was "put up" at all...merely idle speculation and claiming it's "not directly using solar energy anyways" ....is just hilariously wrong.

Sun shining on seawater in the presence of a catalyst is about as direct a conversion to hydrogen by way of solar energy as is possible



Wrong.

I pointed out the practical difficulties.

You failed to address them.

You can't just sprinkle catalyst over the ocean, it has to be contained. How do you collect the hydrogen?
User avatar
juju7
 
Posts: 780

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#13  Postby Macdoc » Oct 11, 2017 5:29 pm

FFS why even bother .....you pointed out nothing ...you speculated with no basis. You think the scientists involved have not thought it through to be scaleable??

How do you collect the hydrogen?


candidate for one of the dumber questions in the science forum :roll: stop flailing and email the scientists involved if you don't understand. :coffee:
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 11804
Age: 70
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#14  Postby juju7 » Oct 13, 2017 8:07 am

Macdoc wrote:FFS why even bother .....you pointed out nothing ...you speculated with no basis. You think the scientists involved have not thought it through to be scaleable??

How do you collect the hydrogen?


candidate for one of the dumber questions in the science forum :roll: stop flailing and email the scientists involved if you don't understand. :coffee:

I see you insult when you fail to answer the question.

You are not worth the effort.
User avatar
juju7
 
Posts: 780

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#15  Postby Macdoc » Oct 14, 2017 10:12 pm

More pieces fitting....

A new miniature solution for storing renewable energy
October 12, 2017

Image
A new miniature solution for storing renewable energy
The cobalt-based metal-organic framework used by the USC scientists, with purple representing cobalt, yellow representing sulfur and gray representing carbon. Credit: Smaranda Marinescu
Scientists have long searched for the next generation of materials that can catalyze a revolution in renewable energy harvesting and storage.
One candidate appears to be metal-organic frameworks. Scientists have used these very small, flexible, ultra-thin, super-porous crystalline structures to do everything from capturing and converting carbon into fuels to storing hydrogen and other gases. Their biggest drawback has been their lack of conductivity.
Now, according to USC scientists, it turns out that metal-organic frameworks can conduct electricity in the same way metals do.


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-miniature ... y.html#jCp
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 11804
Age: 70
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#16  Postby romansh » Oct 15, 2017 3:43 pm

Having photo-lysed the brine ... I am curious what is the other product of the photolysis, chlorine, oxygen, peroxide or some combination?
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
User avatar
romansh
 
Posts: 2294

Country: BC Can (in the woods)
Print view this post

Re: Sunshine + seawater = hydrogen

#17  Postby juju7 » Oct 21, 2017 6:26 am

romansh wrote:Having photo-lysed the brine ... I am curious what is the other product of the photolysis, chlorine, oxygen, peroxide or some combination?

Apparently you should ask the scientists involved.
User avatar
juju7
 
Posts: 780

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post


Return to General Science & Technology

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 0 guests