Historical Jesus

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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Re: Historical Jesus

#42341  Postby Leucius Charinus » Sep 24, 2017 1:40 am

proudfootz wrote:
Leucius Charinus wrote:
proudfootz wrote:
Stein wrote:Apparently, this Holland guy has been praised in certain right-wing circles (as described at the foot of this piece) --

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/cul ... and-review

Isn't that interesting?

Stein


No more interesting than the thugs and sadists who use religious texts as an excuse to oppress, rob, torture, rape, and kill others.


For a religious proponent, the Reverend Spong on the "Terrible Texts of the Bible" covers this aspect very well.


It's so tedious for defenders of orthodoxy to bring out these one-sided 'arguments' as if all the bad guys are among the skeptics.

Holland can't be held responsible for the choices other people make.


To what extent have the Christian and Islamic "Book Religions" been fabricated by the warlords who implemented them in antiquity in order to maintain large geographical expanses of conquered territory by means of a centralised monotheistic state cult?


Thinking about the alliance between church and state that has obtained throughout recorded history all over the globe rather gives me the impression that they are twin forms of social control each relying upon the other and each supporting the other.


Who profited from the English Bible?

The English?

Certainly NOT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

    The King James Version (KJV), also known as the King James Bible (KJB) or simply the Authorized Version (AV), is an English translation of the Christian Bible for the Church of England begun in 1604 and completed in 1611

    ///

    The first had been the Great Bible, commissioned in the reign of King Henry VIII (1535), and the second had been the Bishops' Bible of 1568.[3] In January 1604, James VI and I convened the Hampton Court Conference, where a new English version was conceived in response to the problems of the earlier translations perceived by the Puritans,[4] a faction of the Church of England.[5] The translation is noted for its "majesty of style", and has been described as one of the most important books in English culture[6] and a driving force in the shaping of the English-speaking world.

I cant help thinking that these book religions are basically just rackets run by racketeers who have managed to convince themselves they are doing something worthwhile for their own monopoly business over the great unwashed. We all know WAR IS A RACKET. If we don't then we should read Smedley Butler' piece. It follows therefore that these centralised monotheistic state religious cults are simply spin-off rackets from the great racket of war.

War and Book religions are twin rackets - "forms of social control each relying upon the other and each supporting the other." A study of history seems to confirm this simple observation.
"It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that
the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

Emperor Julian (362 CE)
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42342  Postby Leucius Charinus » Sep 26, 2017 5:11 am

To what extent was belief in the historical (or mythical) Jesus magnified by the decrees of 4th century Roman Emperors?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9
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the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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Re: Historical Jesus

#42343  Postby aban57 » Oct 06, 2017 12:50 pm

So what color what Jesus ? Was he white, as he is mostly depicted today, or was he more dark-skinned ?
What color were Jews born in Judea at that time ?
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42344  Postby proudfootz » Oct 06, 2017 12:55 pm

Here is an illustration from a synagogue, which I would expect depicts people as they saw themselves.

Image

Had there been an Historical Jesus along the lines sometimes described, he could very well have appeared like this.
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42345  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 06, 2017 2:58 pm

aban57 wrote:So what color what Jesus ? Was he white, as he is mostly depicted today, or was he more dark-skinned ?...

I don't know, but he was probably the biological son of a Roman soldier and a middle-eastern woman. His skin colour might therefore have ben anything between the two. Most likely, palish brown.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42346  Postby aban57 » Oct 06, 2017 3:08 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
aban57 wrote:So what color what Jesus ? Was he white, as he is mostly depicted today, or was he more dark-skinned ?...

I don't know, but he was probably the biological son of a Roman soldier and a middle-eastern woman. His skin colour might therefore have ben anything between the two. Most likely, palish brown.


I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't mean the Historical Jesus, but the Jesus from the Bible. If he had existed, what color would he be ? And as I'm typing this, I realize how stupid that question is, as we only know what Maria looked like (if we even do). What color is God ? :lol:
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42347  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 06, 2017 4:27 pm

aban57 wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
aban57 wrote:So what color what Jesus ? Was he white, as he is mostly depicted today, or was he more dark-skinned ?...

I don't know, but he was probably the biological son of a Roman soldier and a middle-eastern woman. His skin colour might therefore have ben anything between the two. Most likely, palish brown.


I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't mean the Historical Jesus, but the Jesus from the Bible. If he had existed, what color would he be ? And as I'm typing this, I realize how stupid that question is, as we only know what Maria looked like (if we even do). What color is God ? :lol:

Sorry, but it only seemed like a sensible question to ask about historical Jesus. The Jesus of the bible didn't even exist, so how could he have had a skin-colour? :scratch:
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42348  Postby aban57 » Oct 06, 2017 5:34 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
aban57 wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
aban57 wrote:So what color what Jesus ? Was he white, as he is mostly depicted today, or was he more dark-skinned ?...

I don't know, but he was probably the biological son of a Roman soldier and a middle-eastern woman. His skin colour might therefore have ben anything between the two. Most likely, palish brown.


I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't mean the Historical Jesus, but the Jesus from the Bible. If he had existed, what color would he be ? And as I'm typing this, I realize how stupid that question is, as we only know what Maria looked like (if we even do). What color is God ? :lol:

Sorry, but it only seemed like a sensible question to ask about historical Jesus. The Jesus of the bible didn't even exist, so how could he have had a skin-colour? :scratch:


Don't be sorry, the fault is mine here. Wrong topic. I was following a discussion somewhere else about how Jesus is depicted. The usual "Jesus was not white, he lived in the middle east". I was wondering what was the most plausible skin color, that's all. Never thought about the "god's color" side of the story before.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42349  Postby RealityRules » Oct 07, 2017 1:19 am

.
"Historical Jesus", like the NT Jesus, is unverified.
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42350  Postby proudfootz » Oct 07, 2017 1:21 am

aban57 wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
aban57 wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
I don't know, but he was probably the biological son of a Roman soldier and a middle-eastern woman. His skin colour might therefore have ben anything between the two. Most likely, palish brown.


I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't mean the Historical Jesus, but the Jesus from the Bible. If he had existed, what color would he be ? And as I'm typing this, I realize how stupid that question is, as we only know what Maria looked like (if we even do). What color is God ? :lol:

Sorry, but it only seemed like a sensible question to ask about historical Jesus. The Jesus of the bible didn't even exist, so how could he have had a skin-colour? :scratch:


Don't be sorry, the fault is mine here. Wrong topic. I was following a discussion somewhere else about how Jesus is depicted. The usual "Jesus was not white, he lived in the middle east". I was wondering what was the most plausible skin color, that's all. Never thought about the "god's color" side of the story before.


I don't see any problem with discussing that sort of thing here.

hence my reply upthread. :thumbup:
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
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Re: Historical Jesus

#42351  Postby DavidMcC » Oct 07, 2017 10:43 am

proudfootz wrote:
aban57 wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
aban57 wrote:

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't mean the Historical Jesus, but the Jesus from the Bible. If he had existed, what color would he be ? And as I'm typing this, I realize how stupid that question is, as we only know what Maria looked like (if we even do). What color is God ? :lol:

Sorry, but it only seemed like a sensible question to ask about historical Jesus. The Jesus of the bible didn't even exist, so how could he have had a skin-colour? :scratch:


Don't be sorry, the fault is mine here. Wrong topic. I was following a discussion somewhere else about how Jesus is depicted. The usual "Jesus was not white, he lived in the middle east". I was wondering what was the most plausible skin color, that's all. Never thought about the "god's color" side of the story before.


I don't see any problem with discussing that sort of thing here.

hence my reply upthread. :thumbup:

I suspect that historical Jesus was a relatively pale-skinned individual, perhaps due to being a half-cast, and this might have made him "stand out from the crowd" a bit.
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