Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#381  Postby mrjonno » Oct 07, 2017 8:40 am

We have had some acid attacks in the UK recently , and the first thing the government tries to do (and the people want) is to looking into the availability of acid. Yes there may be some practical issues in restricting it but at least everyone and I mean everyone agrees that we should at least try. The idea that there is some fundamental right to carry acid for self defence is just so absurd I don't think anyone has even brought it up
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#382  Postby The_Piper » Oct 07, 2017 11:51 am

Sendraks wrote:
zulumoose wrote:
How do inner-city criminals get their illegal guns? Where do those guns come from?


Snatched from coffee tables, drawers, bedside tables, glove compartments, pickup gun racks, mugging victims, etc. Must be easy when they are commonplace and in many states registration and secure storage is not required.


:this:

You could easily amend the question to include any number of common place and readily thieve-able items.

How do inner-city criminals get their smartphones? Where do those smartphones come from?

How do inner-city criminals get their cars? Where do those cars come from?

I don't understand your point. Did you and the others who commented think my questions were a pro-gun statement? Is that because I pointed out that the stats on the graphic Willie posted need to be taken in context before?
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#383  Postby Sendraks » Oct 07, 2017 6:34 pm

The_Piper wrote:
I don't understand your point. Did you and the others who commented think my questions were a pro-gun statement? Is that because I pointed out that the stats on the graphic Willie posted need to be taken in context before?


The answer to both your questions is no.
Consequently, I do not understand your point nor do I understand why you do not understand my point.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#384  Postby The_Piper » Oct 07, 2017 7:08 pm

Sendraks wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
I don't understand your point. Did you and the others who commented think my questions were a pro-gun statement? Is that because I pointed out that the stats on the graphic Willie posted need to be taken in context before?


The answer to both your questions is no.
Consequently, I do not understand your point nor do I understand why you do not understand my point.

Oh well. If that's all you can tell me about your point, then we'll have to accept the misunderstanding. Why ask about their cars and smartphones? I assume inner-city criminals acquire those 2 items legally, for the most part.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#385  Postby willhud9 » Oct 07, 2017 10:02 pm

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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#386  Postby Sendraks » Oct 07, 2017 10:28 pm

The_Piper wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
I don't understand your point. Did you and the others who commented think my questions were a pro-gun statement? Is that because I pointed out that the stats on the graphic Willie posted need to be taken in context before?


The answer to both your questions is no.
Consequently, I do not understand your point nor do I understand why you do not understand my point.

Oh well. If that's all you can tell me about your point, then we'll have to accept the misunderstanding. Why ask about their cars and smartphones? I assume inner-city criminals acquire those 2 items legally, for the most part.


The point was that they are items which are easily acquired illegally and then used for the purposes of crime. Sorry I was unclear.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#387  Postby The_Piper » Oct 07, 2017 10:36 pm

Sendraks wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
I don't understand your point. Did you and the others who commented think my questions were a pro-gun statement? Is that because I pointed out that the stats on the graphic Willie posted need to be taken in context before?


The answer to both your questions is no.
Consequently, I do not understand your point nor do I understand why you do not understand my point.

Oh well. If that's all you can tell me about your point, then we'll have to accept the misunderstanding. Why ask about their cars and smartphones? I assume inner-city criminals acquire those 2 items legally, for the most part.


The point was that they are items which are easily acquired illegally and then used for the purposes of crime. Sorry I was unclear.
No problem, thanks for clarifying. I didn't realize there was a black market for cell phones, but with the cost of iphones these days, that makes sense.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#388  Postby Seabass » Oct 07, 2017 11:05 pm

willhud9 wrote:


If by "we", they mean "Republicans", then yes, "we" constantly avoid talking about gun control.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#389  Postby Sendraks » Oct 07, 2017 11:19 pm

The_Piper wrote:

No problem, thanks for clarifying. I didn't realize there was a black market for cell phones, but with the cost of iphones these days, that makes sense.


Smartphone are a high value, easily stolen, easily resold item. Or it can be searched for information used in identity theft and committing fraud.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#390  Postby aliihsanasl » Oct 08, 2017 7:18 am

Seabass wrote:
willhud9 wrote:


If by "we", they mean "Republicans", then yes, "we" constantly avoid talking about gun control.



If Republicans arent coming then TV channels should invite just Democrats and they have to talk with them. I cant understand this, if they dont come in the first case make a second meeting when some issue being talked sooner or later they will answer on some platform twitter, public appearance etc. provoke them to come and talk if politicians arent coming bring people defending the same view from different sectors of the society; journalists, lawyers even gunshop owners but start talking about it from one point.

In every occasion some of you claim that Turkey rolling into dictatorship but every week we have around 20 discussion programs and at most 5 of them are single voiced and nobody watches them. CNN Turk, HaberTurk and NTV all the time invites 3 government MPs, lawyers, journalists, academicians and 3 from opposition party's MPs or representatives all the time and they discuss whatever the agenda is without any care whether Erdoğan or someone else get offended before society live.

These are only some of the discussions made last week.

CNN Turk

Who requests what in North Iraq ?



What kind of measures we can take for North Iraq



HaberTurk



Whats going on in Idlib ?



Climate Change



NTV

Melih Gökçek meeting with Erdoğan



These are above 3 hours or a little less but mostly around 2 hours discussions with experts. When I search for Las Vegas shooting as I stated before all I find reporters making dramatic statements where shooting take place, conspiracy theories that its false flag operation, and Stephen Colbert's, Conan O'Brien's 10 minutes talks.

edit By the way YTY Cenk's program after Las Vegas shooting was around 1 hour at least thats something and also I dont mean that Erdoğan is a democratic person since we have these programs, guy is openly saying "Im not democrat demoracy is a vehicle that will take us to the station we want" but if all these things going on right before people's eyes and thats what they want, its their will.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#391  Postby Warren Dew » Oct 08, 2017 5:32 pm

zulumoose wrote:
How do inner-city criminals get their illegal guns? Where do those guns come from?

Snatched from coffee tables, drawers, bedside tables, glove compartments, pickup gun racks, mugging victims, etc. Must be easy when they are commonplace and in many states registration and secure storage is not required.

One notable source is from police, who have the contacts to sell them to criminals or trade them for favors.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#392  Postby Warren Dew » Oct 08, 2017 5:43 pm

aban57 wrote:
willhud9 wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
willhud9 wrote:And so again, I raise my point of contention. The US and many other western countries have a comparable assault rate. The US is different because many people can successfully carry out their assault to lethal means. I agree that is a problem. But the bigger problem is the assaults themselves. They need to be addressed, a cure needs to be found for them. You lower assault rates and you lower gun homicide. It’s a simple correlation. :dunno:

Sure, assaults need to be addressed... too.

But that is not an excuse for doing nothing about guns. You can do something about both, and one doesn't have to be at the expense of the other.

I’m not saying do nothing about guns, and as I’ve said I’m all for gun control. :dunno:

My thing is you can have guns, even semi-autos in a society where the assault rates are low.

Do you have an example of any society where assault rate is low ? What makes you think it's even possible to reach that level in our current societies, unless putting some anti-testosterone in the water ?

Violent crime in the US is 4-5 times lower than in the UK. Robberies increased in Australia by over 40% after their firearms act was passed. The statistics show that while gun laws have little to no effect on murder rates, more law abiding citizens with guns leads to less violent crime.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#393  Postby mrjonno » Oct 08, 2017 5:46 pm

Violent crime in the US is 4-5 times lower than in the UK


If you really believe that you will believe anything, been debunked so many times now its hardly worth mentioning
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#394  Postby willhud9 » Oct 08, 2017 5:54 pm

Er? But they do have an effect on murder rates. The UK has a murder rate of .92 vs the US's 4.88. Less then 1 person is murdered per 100,000 in the UK while almost 5 are murdered in the US.

The fact is guns kill. They are good at killing. And while knives and bats and pretty much anything can be used to kill the likelihood of surviving attacks from a knife, bat, etc. is higher on average than that performed by a gun. Restricting access to a gun would decrease the murder rate.

The issue is focusing on homicide rates does not reflect how violent a country really is. For example, China has a homicide rate of .74 and yet has a 3% higher violent crime rate than the US.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#395  Postby willhud9 » Oct 08, 2017 5:57 pm

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/24/blog-posting/social-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme.

However, before we put too much credibility on these calculations, we should note that criminologists say there is actually no good way to compare violent crime rates in these two countries.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#396  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 08, 2017 5:57 pm

Warren Dew wrote:Violent crime in the US is 4-5 times lower than in the UK. Robberies increased in Australia by over 40% after their firearms act was passed. The statistics show that while gun laws have little to no effect on murder rates, more law abiding citizens with guns leads to less violent crime.


You believe that is a good way to run society? Really? Just think FFS. Living in fear? JFCOAPS. No thank you. So people getting murdered is not important so long as there is less violence? What a very very twisted way of looking at the world. Your society is sick very sick.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#397  Postby Fallible » Oct 08, 2017 5:59 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
aban57 wrote:
willhud9 wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Sure, assaults need to be addressed... too.

But that is not an excuse for doing nothing about guns. You can do something about both, and one doesn't have to be at the expense of the other.

I’m not saying do nothing about guns, and as I’ve said I’m all for gun control. :dunno:

My thing is you can have guns, even semi-autos in a society where the assault rates are low.

Do you have an example of any society where assault rate is low ? What makes you think it's even possible to reach that level in our current societies, unless putting some anti-testosterone in the water ?

Violent crime in the US is 4-5 times lower than in the UK. Robberies increased in Australia by over 40% after their firearms act was passed. The statistics show that while gun laws have little to no effect on murder rates, more law abiding citizens with guns leads to less violent crime.



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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#398  Postby mrjonno » Oct 08, 2017 6:02 pm

The issue is focusing on homicide rates does not reflect how violent a country really is. .


Actually yes it does

A dead person is a dead person in any country, anything else is highly subjective (even rape which is almost impossible to count never mind commonly define)
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#399  Postby Warren Dew » Oct 08, 2017 6:03 pm

willhud9 wrote:Er? But they do have an effect on murder rates. The UK has a murder rate of .92 vs the US's 4.88. Less then 1 person is murdered per 100,000 in the UK while almost 5 are murdered in the US.

Then why is the murder rate in New Hampshire, which has virtually no gun control laws, so much lower than the murder rate in states that have strict gun control laws? Why is the US murder rate by far the highest in DC, which has perhaps the strictest gun control laws in the nation?

The evidence is that murder rates are unrelated to gun control either way, and are related to other factors.
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Re: Las Vegas Shooting Near Mandalay Bay

#400  Postby willhud9 » Oct 08, 2017 6:03 pm

mrjonno wrote:
The issue is focusing on homicide rates does not reflect how violent a country really is. .


Actually yes it does

A dead person is a dead person in any country, anything else is highly subjective (even rape which is almost impossible to count never mind commonly define)


??? Subjective? How is being beaten to an inch of life subjective (that is violent assault and not a homicide statistic). Furthermore, your disregard of rape statistics is not only disgusting but why the term rape culture was invented. :yuk:
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