UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#41  Postby Macdoc » Aug 28, 2018 9:11 pm

Do you really think Argentina expected that level of response from Britain.

How Margaret Thatcher's Falklands gamble paid off | Politics | The ...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nds-gamble
Apr 9, 2013 - The Falklands war of April-June 1982 was the turning point in Mrs Thatcher's premiership, indeed in her political career. The previous October, the Tory party conference had been alive with dissent. The so-called "wets" were openly conspiring against her.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#42  Postby fisherman » Aug 28, 2018 11:07 pm

I don't see why that is relevent in determining who picked a fight with whom (Argentina BTW).

Though for what it is worth; the response to the invasion through Argentine eyes, can only be seen as a testament to Argentina's own political and military miscalculation, they got it wrong and fucked up. I doubt they think, for a moment, that the UK picked a fight by responding to the invasion in that way.

The war is a very straight forward casus belli, but to look at the UK's reaction to the invasion, and judge whether it was the correct level of response will undoubtedly gain a different view depending on who you ask. I've been to the Falklands on several occasions, and have yet to speak with any local who was not grateful for Thatcher's decision to re-take the islands. Even if someone does view it as an over reaction, it doesn't change that it would still fall within the range of possible and legitimate reactions to invasion.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#43  Postby Macdoc » Aug 29, 2018 6:13 am

Oh I'm sure the locals are grateful ...no denying that and the opportunity came up and Thatcher capitalized on it......I don't think she went looking for it.

Argentina has a case as well but this is what the UN is for in all instances.....not warfare.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#44  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 29, 2018 8:04 am

Argentina and British leaders used the Falklands/Maldives for the same political reason; to solve problems on the home front.
The British should have never responded with force. The Argentinian government was not going to last and a bit of political and economic pressure was more than enough but Thatcher wanted to save her political career at any cost. Just like Brexit today.
Thatcher was lucky that she had the oil money which she squandered otherwise the UK could be on a par with Norway but then again British politicians cannot plan past five years which is exemplified by Brexit.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#45  Postby Macdoc » Sep 21, 2018 3:58 am

Seems a repeating theme

UK's nuclear deterrent infrastructure 'not fit for purpose', say MPs
Trident faces budget and skills gaps at time of international uncertainty, plus supply threats due to Brexit
Rajeev Syal
Fri 21 Sep 2018 00.01 BST

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A guard on HMS Vengeance, a Vanguard-class nuclear submarine

The Ministry of Defence is at serious risk of failing to run a working nuclear deterrent, parliament’s spending watchdog has concluded.

A report by the public accounts committee found that past decisions delaying maintenance at the MoD’s 13 sites that support nuclear submarines had left the programme “not fit for purpose”.

The Trident nuclear missile programme could also be adversely affected by Brexit because of the reliance on imported material from EU countries and difficulties bringing engineers from the continent, Friday’s report said.

Defence chiefs must bridge a £2.9bn black hole and fill a skills gap if they are to maintain the current deterrent, according to the influential cross-party committee.


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I guess the "hot" nuclear white elephant needs a harem to boogie with.....cute lips on those carriers :roll: :coffee:
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#46  Postby GrahamH » Sep 21, 2018 7:58 am

Macdoc wrote:It's the world's biggest economy, it's the world's biggest debtor nation....it went from the largest creditor nation in the 80s to a place that is shredding into third world, where military bases have food kitchens, infrastructure is decaying

:scratch:

Don't all military bases have "food kitchens" (canteens)?
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#47  Postby zulumoose » Sep 21, 2018 8:05 am

I think the term "food kitchen" is intended to mean charity food, like "soup kitchen"
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#48  Postby Fallible » Sep 21, 2018 8:52 am

I'm not really sure what the point of the 'food kitchen' comment was. Both Australia and Canada also have soup kitchens and food banks.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#49  Postby GrahamH » Sep 21, 2018 9:07 am

zulumoose wrote:I think the term "food kitchen" is intended to mean charity food, like "soup kitchen"


That is the implication, but does it make sense. What is the source of the claim? I don't know any details but don't military personnel pay a deduction for food? Do they have to buy their meals with cash from their pocket? Can someone be homeless on a military base?
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#50  Postby Fallible » Sep 21, 2018 9:27 am

The army provides accommodation for its employees. I work with a couple of soldiers, single people - they live on the base.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#51  Postby Teague » Sep 21, 2018 12:20 pm

Macdoc wrote:Oh I'm sure the locals are grateful ...no denying that and the opportunity came up and Thatcher capitalized on it......I don't think she went looking for it.

Argentina has a case as well but this is what the UN is for in all instances.....not warfare.


Has a case to the Falklands ownership?
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#52  Postby Macdoc » Sep 21, 2018 2:25 pm

Buffer zone ...blah blah, sovereign sphere etc - see S China sea :roll:
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#53  Postby Teague » Sep 21, 2018 4:15 pm

Macdoc wrote:Buffer zone ...blah blah, sovereign sphere etc - see S China sea :roll:


Argentina have no case for anything to do with the Falklands. IIRC they're not even owned by us and are their own state or nation. Argentina never discovered the island either and I think don't even have a history with it. Chile could say they own Argentina using the same tactics I think.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#54  Postby Fallible » Sep 21, 2018 4:25 pm

They are owned by Britain, but apparently want it that way:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute

Contemporary Falkland Islanders overwhelmingly prefer to remain British. They gained full British citizenship with the British Nationality (Falkland Islands) Act 1983, after British victory in the Falklands War.[...]

In March 2013 the Falkland Islanders voted overwhelmingly in a referendum for the territory to remain British. Argentina dismissed this referendum.[64][65] The British Government urged Argentina and other countries to respect the islanders' wishes.[66]
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#55  Postby Teague » Sep 21, 2018 4:31 pm

Britain rests its case on its long-term administration of the Falklands and on the principle of self-determination for the islanders, who are almost all of British descent.

LEADERS

Head of state: Queen Elizabeth II, represented by a governor

The islands are self-governing, although foreign affairs and defence matters are handled by the British government.

There is no party-political activity on the islands.

A new constitution to enhance the powers of the Executive Council came into force on 1 January 2009.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18425572
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#56  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 21, 2018 4:43 pm

I think Argentina will have something to say about that when the UK applies to join the WTO.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#57  Postby Teague » Sep 21, 2018 4:52 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:I think Argentina will have something to say about that when the UK applies to join the WTO.


Applies to join the WTO?
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#58  Postby Teague » Sep 21, 2018 4:54 pm

I think you mean this...

In the weeks that preceded the UK’s EU referendum, WTO Director-General Roberto Azevêdo broke his silence over the UK leaving the EU (Brexit), first with the Financial Times, followed by Reuters, the Guardian, and others. One of his key points was that the UK would face complex talks in the World Trade Organization. What did he mean?

https://www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-s ... ost-brexit
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#59  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 21, 2018 5:40 pm

Read about the WTO. It is a club and you have to get agreement on your trade schedules. Anyone can object.
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Re: UK Hubris?? ...trying to keep up ??

#60  Postby Teague » Sep 24, 2018 10:08 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Read about the WTO. It is a club and you have to get agreement on your trade schedules. Anyone can object.


A club the UK is already a member of and doesn't need to join like you just said they did.
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