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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1081  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 12, 2021 9:56 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:Colours a universal language also?


Not so, obviously, as colours are perceived qualities, not objective quantities. Many animals see different colours to us, and how exactly can we be sure that the colour we both see is perceived the same way? If I see blue as green, but learn the word 'blue' in reference to it and thus always refer to it as blue despite actually seeing green - how would I, you or anyone know? Thus, a universal language it cannot be.


pfrankinstein wrote:Such a conceptual order of colour needs structure.


Why? You might want to impose structure on the universe, but that doesn't indicate that such structure has any relevance, reason or value.


pfrankinstein wrote:So we look to the most basic premise, based on best scientific evidence the big bang happened. We know because we see evidence, echoes via Red shift.
So in the universal understanding of colour.
I propose red to be the first.


My suggestion is for you to understand the concept of frames of reference. Red shift is meaningless without understanding this, and understanding this makes contending that red is 'the first colour' (whatever value that's supposed to impute) untenable.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1082  Postby pfrankinstein » Nov 13, 2021 12:13 am

I'm looking from the human Darwinian perspective.
What use is knowing an intelligent visual coloured sequence.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1083  Postby The_Metatron » Nov 13, 2021 12:14 am

EM radiation has wavelengths we can measure and quantify. We know what frequency of light we call red is. The trouble is, to call that universal, we'd have to know how everything perceives that particular wavelength.

I think you've projected your idea of color to everyone and everything else.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1084  Postby pfrankinstein » Nov 13, 2021 2:26 am

Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1085  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 13, 2021 4:30 am

pfrankinstein wrote:Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.


You're a few years too late. The eminent color scientist, Roy G. Biv (deceased) put color order on a firm footing long before you were born. His initials are immortalized in the RGB color scheme currently used in computer graphics. Others have come along since then, such as Chu-Ming Yong-Kim (CMYK) and Herbert Stanton Brown (HSB). You can look it up.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1086  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 13, 2021 8:02 am

Don't forget the pioneering work of Peggy Lee.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1087  Postby hackenslash » Nov 15, 2021 8:31 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.


You're a few years too late. The eminent color scientist, Roy G. Biv (deceased) put color order on a firm footing long before you were born. His initials are immortalized in the RGB color scheme currently used in computer graphics. Others have come along since then, such as Chu-Ming Yong-Kim (CMYK) and Herbert Stanton Brown (HSB). You can look it up.


And that's just for colour on macroscopic scales. Wait till he hears about Quantum Chromodynamics...
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1088  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 15, 2021 11:34 am

hackenslash wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.


You're a few years too late. The eminent color scientist, Roy G. Biv (deceased) put color order on a firm footing long before you were born. His initials are immortalized in the RGB color scheme currently used in computer graphics. Others have come along since then, such as Chu-Ming Yong-Kim (CMYK) and Herbert Stanton Brown (HSB). You can look it up.


And that's just for colour on macroscopic scales. Wait till he hears about Quantum Chromodynamics...


I dunno. If we stick with Spearthrower's citation of Peggy Lee, maybe we can work that into Perry Comodynamics.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1089  Postby newolder » Nov 15, 2021 11:40 am

pfrankinstein wrote:Colours a universal language also?
...
I propose red to be the first.


Electromagnetic radiation also carries polarisation information and the guys in the Dept. of Mantiss Shrimps want to know what you are going to do about that?

Mantis shrimps, scientifically known as stomatopods, have compound eyes, a bit like a bee or a fly, made up of 10,000 small photoreceptive units. ... Additionally, a large portion of photoreceptors in the mantis shrimp's eye are used for visualising the UV and polarisation information in objects and scenes underwater.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1090  Postby hackenslash » Nov 15, 2021 11:42 am

I can't hear Perry Como's name without going straight to this:

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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1091  Postby hackenslash » Nov 15, 2021 11:44 am

newolder wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:Colours a universal language also?
...
I propose red to be the first.


Electromagnetic radiation also carries polarisation information and the guys in the Dept. of Mantiss Shrimps want to know what you are going to do about that?


And, of course, we've learned that when anything's polarised, it's probably being filtered by shit...

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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1092  Postby newolder » Nov 15, 2021 11:51 am

^ "Your theory sparkles like shit in the eyes of a shrimp", reads like a future Blackadder putdown. :think:
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1093  Postby hackenslash » Nov 15, 2021 11:54 am

:grin:
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1094  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 15, 2021 3:49 pm

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. After that Red Dwarf excerpt, a duck-swinging contest was inevitable.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1095  Postby hackenslash » Nov 15, 2021 6:59 pm

Bombay duck..?

Image
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1096  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 16, 2021 4:31 am

Officially!

But the ducks being swung might be quantum ducks. Quark! Quark!
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1097  Postby hackenslash » Nov 16, 2021 9:46 am

You've heard the one about the Grand Old quantum duck of York and his ten thousand quarks...

And when they were up they were up
And when they were down they were down
And when they were only halfway up they were simultaneously up and down
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1098  Postby pfrankinstein » Dec 09, 2021 9:11 pm

Brains the size of busses some on here.

Cheese I love cheese me "if a picture paints a thousand words, if an artist picks up a brush.
With the three primary colours how many words? Go figure.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1099  Postby Hermit » Dec 10, 2021 1:16 am

pfrankinstein wrote:Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.

Wavelength and frequency might just serve as a baseline. To add context we could insert visible colours into the electromagnetic spectrum. Somewhere between infrared and ultraviolet might be a suitable location. It's a novel idea, I know, but worth a try.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1100  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 10, 2021 4:01 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:
With the three primary colours how many words? Go figure.


Three.
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