Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

Scoring the arguments for and against

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#161  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 30, 2021 8:45 am

Spearthrower wrote:
As the new Omicron variant spreads around the world, creationists have been asked whether the molecular evolution of SarsCov2 is not remarkable evidence for Darwinian theory


Creationists have been asked by other Creationists, because Creationists are only credible to other Creationists, and were those asking Creationists not themselves Creationist, they'd consider asking a Creationist a question about evolution to be about as useful as asking a mouse to tap dance.


That last bit is an emergent outcome of the Snarkoverse / Blogosphere. The way to explore the issue with a creationist is just to ask a question without indicating that the questioner has credibility issues w.r.t. creationism. You can't do that, here. SarsCov2 is obviously a divine intervention, no less than virology is. The invalidation of the postulate of divinity follows immediately. The lemma is the proof of the conjecture that divinity works in mysterious ways. That the ways of divinity are mysterious follows immediately from the mystery.

Remember, it's a waste of time to try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig. Maybe the whole point is to annoy the pig. It's rumored that pigs (and creationists) make good eating. Let us prey: Nothing predates predation.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#162  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 30, 2021 9:11 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
Remember, it's a waste of time to try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig. Maybe the whole point is to annoy the pig.


Sometimes, just sometimes, pigs learn to sing.

For me, though... it works more like a soap box, in ye olde street corner style. There's something fundamentally right in providing a place for anyone to momentarily elevate their voice above the crowd, but in turn they must hold equally sacred the right of the crowd to reply with mockery and jeers.

Pantomime, I guess, is pretty close too - Oh no he didn't, Oh yes he did!. And it is, always, a pantomime! :)
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#163  Postby Wortfish » Nov 30, 2021 10:55 am

Spearthrower wrote:
As the new Omicron variant spreads around the world, creationists have been asked whether the molecular evolution of SarsCov2 is not remarkable evidence for Darwinian theory


Creationists have been asked by other Creationists, because Creationists are only credible to other Creationists, and were those asking Creationists not themselves Creationist, they'd consider asking a Creationist a question about evolution to be about as useful as asking a mouse to tap dance.


Well, I don't get the distinction between the acceptance that the virus is "changing" and it is "evolving". But it is an important point that natural selection cannot prevent the virus from mutating itself out of existence.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#164  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 30, 2021 12:02 pm

Wortfish wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
As the new Omicron variant spreads around the world, creationists have been asked whether the molecular evolution of SarsCov2 is not remarkable evidence for Darwinian theory


Creationists have been asked by other Creationists, because Creationists are only credible to other Creationists, and were those asking Creationists not themselves Creationist, they'd consider asking a Creationist a question about evolution to be about as useful as asking a mouse to tap dance.


Well, I don't get the distinction between the acceptance that the virus is "changing" and it is "evolving".


Dogma is the distinction.


Wortfish wrote: But it is an important point that natural selection cannot prevent the virus from mutating itself out of existence.


And of course, no one who has the faintest idea how evolution by natural selection occurs would find this anything other than obvious.

As always, populations are walking a tightrope through time and space - even being too successful can be detrimental to a population's long term survival. The rules of the game are ever-changing, so no one size ever fits all... and thus endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful, and most pernicious and virulent have evolved and will continue to evolve.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#165  Postby Hermit » Nov 30, 2021 5:01 pm

Wortfish wrote:But it is an important point that natural selection cannot prevent the virus from mutating itself out of existence.

Indeed. Please explain how that is supposed to be an argument against evolution.
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


God created the universe
God just exists
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#166  Postby Rumraket » Dec 07, 2021 11:18 am

Wortfish wrote:
Now, let's see the latest information on the delta variant: https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-m ... searchers/

That's not "the latest information on the delta variant", that's a blog post with some guys giving opinions.

Peer reviewed research please.

Wortfish wrote:Well, I don't get the distinction between the acceptance that the virus is "changing" and it is "evolving". But it is an important point that natural selection cannot prevent the virus from mutating itself out of existence.

Weirdly, though, that just doesn't seem to be happening. Somehow we have a new variant called Omicron spreading rapidly and outcompeting the Delta variant, and with a considerable immune-escape component. So just when is this virus supposed to mutate itself out of existence? It's still around and appears to be going strong.
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Re: Creationist and Evolutionist hypotheses put to the test

#167  Postby Calilasseia » Jan 19, 2022 5:15 pm

WARNING - DATA TAKES A LONG TIME TO LOAD

The fun part being, of course, that the Covid-19 virus now has an extensive phylogenetic tree of its own. You can search that tree, and find out what mutations have been acquired by each of the virus serotypes on the nodes of that tree.

Though since there are now several thousand nodes on that tree, you have all the fun of waiting for the data to load, and now, the data set is large enough that I can go and cook a pizza while I'm waiting for the full global data set to load ...

EDIT : that tree contains details of 3,327 sampled genomes after I loaded it.
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