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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1241  Postby Evolving » Dec 28, 2021 5:56 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:...ditty has a chapter all of its own.


Whatever does that mean? I'm honestly baffled here.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1242  Postby pfrankinstein » Dec 28, 2021 6:45 pm

Evolving wrote:The point about evolution by natural selection is that it provides a mechanism whereby developments can occur (fitting the organism better and better, as the generations pass, to its environment), without the need for a deliberate intervention by any conscious entity. Given enough genetic variation and an environment sufficiently challenging as to create selection pressure, evolution is inevitable; just as, at a beach, given a sufficient incline, sufficiently energetic breakers and a sufficient variety of particles of stone (from the finest sand to the largest pebbles), it’s inevitable that over time those particles will sort themselves into bands, with the finest at the top, the largest at the bottom. Evolution by natural selection explains how the species that we see have been able to emerge (and the disruption caused by the sea, combined with gravity and the ability of pebbles to roll, explains the appearance of the beach), without postulating a designer.

I can see what you mean (I think) in seeing a kind of resemblance between the emergence of better adapted organisms (or better delineated bands of sand and pebbles) on the one hand, and the growth of knowledge useful for constructing better automobiles, and the emergence of those automobiles, on the other. Both developments occur over time through a process of improvement.

But there is no inevitability in that growth of knowledge, in that improvement. There’s no mechanism, no automatic process. At every stage somebody is choosing to use that knowledge, and is choosing the objective for which it’s to be used, and that somebody is the designer (in the broadest sense of that word). This doesn’t explain anything. Knowhow develops through human action, and the products that it’s used for improve over time; well, we knew that already.


I'm not proposing a designer. With the exception of our human selection, I'm proposing nature doing the selecting.The three types of SELECTION I propose best explain the observed data. Don't get to hung up on EVOLUTION just explaining the origin of species. The mechanism is all iimportant

Let me put it to you another way.

It is not the single process that changes, it is the environment, and type of material being evolved.

Single chain evolution is a shape shifter process.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1243  Postby newolder » Dec 28, 2021 8:31 pm

Originally devised as a rigorous means of counting holes, homology provides a scaffolding for mathematical ideas, allowing for a new way to analyze the shapes within data.

quantamagazine source

In order to count the holes in paul's chain, we are going to need a bigger homology. :picard:
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1244  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 29, 2021 7:20 am

pfrankinstein wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:
I'm here like all of us are, for the science.


Oh how we laughed.


You've go your formula one, your tractor, off road, on road

All terrain , pick up, bus, coach, lorry.

Human selection emerged from natural selection.

Both are related.

All automobiles evolved from a common ancestor.

Do you see it Unconscious SPECIATION.

Paul



As I said Paul - if you're unwilling to listen, then you're never going to learn anything, and you'll still be doing this same silly charade in another 15 years. What a waste.

The development of automobiles is indeed a type of selection, just not one that's got anything at all to do with natural selection. You know, for the reasons I've pointed out to you dozens of times.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1245  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 29, 2021 7:24 am

pfrankinstein wrote:
hackenslash wrote:Automobiles don't reproduce. They don't have ancestors. They have forerunners. Bit of a hole in your dreck, that.

To be fair, though, it's only the holes holding this bollocks together.

Oh, and FYI, human selection IS natural selection.


Because I see where the descent with modification selection part is in the process,...


Yet this is not evolution by natural selection, because, as you've been educated many times, the components of natural selection are variation, differential reproduction, heritability. Cars don't possess intrinsic variation - it's entirely extrinsic. Cars don't reproduce, and therefore cannot be favoured by nature, nor can they inherit.

I already explained to you that analogies can be useful, but they have limitations - those same limitations you fail to perceive, which is why you keep repeating elementary errors falsely believing you're making some mindbending point.


pfrankinstein wrote:... because I also understand that the knowledge of how to make motor cars is stored and passed down through generations , can state that the motor car evolves.


Automobiles categorically do not evolve.



pfrankinstein wrote:The knowledge is not stored not in DNA, but artificially. So it counts as a different types of EVOLUTION from the scrap you understand, ditty has a chapter all of its own.


You're talking bollocks as usual, and as usual, you ironically pretend to yourself that your bollocks is a product of your special knowledge rather than just being wholly indicative of your paucity of comprehension.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1246  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 29, 2021 7:25 am

And yet another self-declared great thinker unable to use forum software designed for the lowest common denominator.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1247  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 29, 2021 7:27 am

pfrankinstein wrote:
I'm not proposing a designer. With the exception of our human selection, I'm proposing nature doing the selecting.The three types of SELECTION I propose best explain the observed data. Don't get to hung up on EVOLUTION just explaining the origin of species. The mechanism is all iimportant


Paul's learned to talk about mechanism because this was what he was challenged to produce 10 years ago.

But still, despite now using the word, there's nothing else under the hood - no actual mechanism is in sight.


pfrankinstein wrote:Let me put it to you another way.

It is not the single process that changes, it is the environment, and type of material being evolved.

Single chain evolution is a shape shifter process.


Words absent significance.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1248  Postby hackenslash » Dec 29, 2021 10:24 am

Maybe, in an attempt to constrain the thread to the topic title, Paul would like to enumerate the selection coefficients, or maybe he could detail the parabolic partial differential equation that models fixation, or tell us about the Fisher information matrix for then evolution of automobiles.

I'm guessing not.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1249  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 29, 2021 10:27 am

hackenslash wrote:Maybe, in an attempt to constrain the thread to the topic title, Paul would like to enumerate the selection coefficients, or maybe he could detail the parabolic partial differential equation that models fixation, or tell us about the Fisher information matrix for then evolution of automobiles.


Or he could repeat the same assortment of words he's been fixated on for over a decade.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1250  Postby pfrankinstein » Dec 30, 2021 5:17 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:
I'm here like all of us are, for the science.


Oh how we laughed.


You've go your formula one, your tractor, off road, on road

All terrain , pick up, bus, coach, lorry.

Human selection emerged from natural selection.

Both are related.

All automobiles evolved from a common ancestor.

Do you see it Unconscious SPECIATION.

Paul



As I said Paul - if you're unwilling to listen, then you're never going to learn anything, and you'll still be doing this same silly charade in another 15 years. What a waste.

The development of automobiles is indeed a type of selection, just not one that's got anything at all to do with natural selection. You know, for the reasons I've pointed out to you dozens of times.


The development, the change, the emergence, fool.

Nothing to do with natural selection, yes yes. But all to do with human selection.
Human SELECTION emerged for you precious natural.

Answer me a few questions.

DESCENT... an important part of the mechanism. Yes?

To pass down through generations genetic information. Yes?

To pass down through generations.

As a naturalist =Everything following the arrow of time?

I propose that Darwin's mechanism started with the big bang.

You could argue Darwins mechanism waited until life got started here on earth, and as if by magic started and got to work on biology. But that would be a most unsatisfactory nonsense.

So where does the the Descent part come into play in my Primordial Evolution?

How is knowledge stored in the inorganic vastness of the universe.
?

Shall we start over?

The big bang a single beginning denotes a single process.

That single process can be divided by three.

Three chapters of evolution.

The three chapters are divided an notable by their complete differences. Material and domain.

One type of evolution, the first predominantly takes place in the vastness of our inorganic universe.
Primordial evolution can be seen by looking at the vast. It also is at work here on earth.
Stratigraphy: strata, Random or selected by physical forces and type material.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1251  Postby pfrankinstein » Dec 30, 2021 5:24 pm

I will review the thread later next week and answer more questions. critics.
Alas. I must work.
In the meantime test the theory. Three types of SELECTION.
Kind regards to everyone.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1252  Postby Greg the Grouper » Dec 30, 2021 5:36 pm

My concern is whether or not my choice of dessert is explained by single chain evolution or whatever the fuck this is.
The evolution of intelligence has gone beyond the restrains of biological individual generations.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1253  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 30, 2021 6:21 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:
The development, the change, the emergence, fool.



Thanks!

You've ticked all the boxes on my predicted summary of your behavior.

From page 4:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/mathe ... l#p2777536

We all know the pattern now. The other thread will plot it clearly for any who aren't familiar.

Series of grammatically questionable statements coupled with declarations exhibiting a pervasive pattern of grandiosity.
Any attempts at questioning, probing, or challenging the little that can actually be determined from said statements are met with playground style personal abuse.
Then more self-aggrandizement as the original grammatically poor statements are once again repeated, possibly with the addition of some asterisks, chevrons, or other useless formatting marks presumably employed because Paul believes they add a veneer of legitimacy or structure to illegitimate and unstructured assertions.
Finally, insertion of a youtube link to a Peter Gabriel song.



We also know the reason why you behave like this Paul - it's because your idea is so fucking shit that you can't defend it with logic, reason, evidence, so instead you behave like a moron which then shows that it's not only your idea that's shit, but so is the mind behind it. 15 years of failure, Paul - tell us how you'll have the last laugh and I can call Full House on my crackpot bingo card.
Last edited by Spearthrower on Dec 30, 2021 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1254  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 30, 2021 6:22 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:
Alas. I must work.


I can't even imagine.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1255  Postby newolder » Dec 30, 2021 6:43 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:I will review the thread later next week and answer more questions. ...

You've answered questions? When, where?
Evolving wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:...ditty has a chapter all of its own.


Whatever does that mean? ...

:coffee: :popcorn:
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1256  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 30, 2021 6:52 pm

Needs merging:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/pseud ... 20880.html

What part of the statement 'one bang = one process' are you struggling with?



Certainly needs moving as this thread contains - do the math! - zero mathematics! :popcorn:
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1257  Postby pfrankinstein » Dec 30, 2021 7:35 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Needs merging:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/pseud ... 20880.html

What part of the statement 'one bang = one process' are you struggling with?



Certainly needs moving as this thread contains - do the math! - zero mathematics! :popcorn:



Wakie wakies rise and shine.

Key features include:

Chapter 1, Primal SELECTION = total unconscious e SELECTION.

Chapter 2,Darwinian selection = pre-selection, subconsciouse.

Chapter 3,Human SELECTION = grey consciousness.

Like I say thrower wake up. Observation: no shoe horn needed.

The three types of selection I propose can be seen to flow one state to the next and and so reflecting the observed human experience.

Brilliant if I do say so myself.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1258  Postby pfrankinstein » Dec 30, 2021 7:54 pm

hackenslash wrote:Maybe, in an attempt to constrain the thread to the topic title, Paul would like to enumerate the selection coefficients, or maybe he could detail the parabolic partial differential equation that models fixation, or tell us about the Fisher information matrix for then evolution of automobiles.

I'm guessing not.



I'm performing long division... From bang to now...Not with numbers but with a process...

Long division is math is it not?
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1259  Postby Greg the Grouper » Dec 30, 2021 8:08 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:
hackenslash wrote:Maybe, in an attempt to constrain the thread to the topic title, Paul would like to enumerate the selection coefficients, or maybe he could detail the parabolic partial differential equation that models fixation, or tell us about the Fisher information matrix for then evolution of automobiles.

I'm guessing not.



I'm performing long division... From bang to now...Not with numbers but with a process...

Long division is math is it not?


Math involves numbers.

Long division involves numbers.
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Re: Mathematics a universal language.

#1260  Postby newolder » Dec 30, 2021 8:16 pm

Greg the Grouper wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:
hackenslash wrote:Maybe, in an attempt to constrain the thread to the topic title, Paul would like to enumerate the selection coefficients, or maybe he could detail the parabolic partial differential equation that models fixation, or tell us about the Fisher information matrix for then evolution of automobiles.

I'm guessing not.



I'm performing long division... From bang to now...Not with numbers but with a process...

Long division is math is it not?


Math involves numbers.

Long division involves numbers.


If we are going to be strict then polynomial long division is a thing in maths too. There is a good page at the Maths is fun site to get started with... :thumbup:
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