Democrat Watch

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Re: Democrat Watch

#2001  Postby Hermit » Aug 11, 2021 4:37 pm

The_Piper wrote:I'm well aware of that dynamic. What am I supposed to do, vote for Trumps?

Settle, petal. Nobody is upbraiding you for doing wrong or not doing enough, particularly not because - as Tortured_Genius pointed out - the 2 party first-past-the-post voting system doesn't leave you more choice than to vote for the least worst candidate.

You could in fact do worse, as the Sanders supporters demonstrated when their candidate was kneecapped in the 2016 primaries. Had they voted for Clinton instead, at least in the swing states, mother earth in general and the US of A in particular would have been spared the Trumpian clusterfuck. (You did vote for HRC in 2016, right? ;) )
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2002  Postby The_Piper » Aug 11, 2021 6:14 pm

I was a Sanders supporter, he was the best viable presidential candidate of my adult life. No, I didn't vote for Clinton, I sat out, and look what happened. :doh: I'm replying to the premise of the O'Donnell video when I rhetorically ask what am I supposed to do? I have to vote against Republicans. Conservative corporate Democrats aren't going to get me where I want to go, but Republicans will draw me even further away from that, thus in this system I must vote for the corporate Democrat when left with the 2 choices. Ranked choice voting would help immensely. I'm not a registered Democrat, although I may decide to join so I can vote in the state primaries. I thought Maine would go Bernie over Biden in a landslide again in 2020, so didn't bother, but they narrowly picked Biden in my district iirc. :lol: :nono:
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2003  Postby BlackBart » Aug 11, 2021 8:46 pm

The_Piper wrote: I sat out, and look what happened.


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Re: Democrat Watch

#2004  Postby The_Piper » Aug 11, 2021 10:43 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2005  Postby Stein » Oct 14, 2021 1:09 am

arugula2 wrote:A lot of tedious spaghetti-straightening to do here. It'll have to be spread out. :confused:

Meanwhile: the first thing anyone needs to do, when asking 'why the fixation on AOC', is to get more acquianted with the history of civil rights in this country. That includes not just black liberation movements & (recent) immigrant rights, but also labor rights. Any valid "fixation" would have to do with the party con. The party tries to either destroy the radical new-comer who's come to expose & rebuild it, or it tries to absorb her - a dual strategy of every sociopathic power structure I know of, so no one's surprised by it (except maybe useful idiots on social media, I guess). The party con is an expression of class politics, so it's really just the wealthy class interests buying the allegiance of that occasional radical who makes it into the ranks. When they can, they'll raise up a candidate who can mimic progressive talking points and (the latest fashion) someone who's brown - like the party is doing to Nina Turner as we speak. Turner's a bit more famous than most, but the party has done exactly the same to dozens of lefty types in the past couple years. Hundreds in the last 5-6 decades. It's what it does. If you don't understand what AOC's PAC meant, and what the role of the DLC & DCCC is... then you don't know jack shit about AOC, the Dem party, or movements around either, and your reactions will show it. How little a century of civil rights movements registers, then.

Afaik, that reaction post to AOC's speech on Palestine is the first time I've ever made a post about her, other than a single sentence in another post about her fundraising plan (that was a year ago, and what a loooong year it's been for her) and a recent reply to a silly example of internet-memes-as-politics - with, again, a very short description of her self-stated goals: to sometimes scold Democrats, and to raise money for progressive challengers of Democrats. She's never interested me much, and there are plenty of other "progressive" pols to "fixate" on... as best I can tell, I'm the only one "fixating" on them, in this thread (aside from Bernie, who gets the unsurprising white male bump). Except for my replies following the Palestine post, I've written at least 5x more on Cori Bush, for example, just in this thread. Not that anyone gives a fuck about Cori Bush, amirite?

The Palestine speech happened to come up on a youtube feed. (I still subscribe to TYT Investigates - used to be for Jonathan Larsen's thoughtful reportage, but after a year+ of nothing but clips of speeches with cringey, Dem-simping ( ;) ) titles, I guess I give up on him. Well, he did post an update on the Buttigieg police tapes a couple months ago.) What I care about is Palestine. As I suggested in that very first post, she probably doesn't. I offered that she might just be ignorant on foreign policy, but I doubt that explains the speech. Also, turns out she was a foreign policy major in uni, and... handled foreign affairs issues for Ted Kennedy as a clerk. So I'm still leaning on 'she doesn't give a fuck' (and has to pretend she does).

That's neither here nor there, bc I don't care which it is. She has a platform, it's huge, and so her words matter. Pretty simple. It seemed more complicated only because people 'fixating' on AOC as anything other than a tool of the people who elected her (or a tool of the people who have since co-opted her) got into their feelings about someone criticizing her... dismissed my arguments with straw men & association fallacies... and then couldn't exhibit basic understanding of the topic of the speech (or even of the criticisms, because I've had to explain basic premises I shouldn't have had to).

I've only glanced at more recent posts... I'll get to them. But oy vey :facepalm2: How do I know Bernie thinks it's apartheid? Jfc. Later.



At first, I was furious with Israel when they dragged their heels with not only Arafat but even with Abbas, who actually took a bullet from his own people for being a peace advocate. So at first, when Rabin and Arafat got together and the Oslo accords came through, I was over the moon at the thought that the Palestinians would finally have the separate state to which they'd been long entitled and for which the U.N. had explicitly called from the beginning. Arafat and Rabin had clearly earned the Nobel Peace Prize, and I viewed the Oslo accords in the same golden light in which I saw the collapse of the Berlin wall and the accession of Nelson Mandela. It was all part of a new world where peace and hope was emerging, and benchmarks were being laid down for decency and a functional world.

Then came Bosnia and the helplessness of the U.N. there, and in Israel a lowlife settler's bullet for Rabin. Oslo later threatened to unravel, and I later wondered if Peres and Shamir were really dedicated enough to peace compared with heroes like Abbas. Little did I guess that compared to what was coming and the abuses of Netanyahu, Peres and Shamir would seem like angels, looking back.

Netanyahu has descended to depths of depravity that I never thought I'd see in a post-Berlin-wall world. His refusal to properly confront the criminal settlers once and for all has made him a criminal too. He enabled them instead. His continued check points around the West Bank, his harrowing and persecution of Gaza, have hammered nail after nail into the Oslo coffin.....

Today, what do we see? We see that Netanyahu has gained virtual allies in his clearly criminal attempt to wreck the dream of two separate states. Who are those virtual allies? They are the pioneers in the B.D.S. movement. By implicitly pretending that Netanyahu has somehow rendered the dream of two states obsolete -- an absurd, obscene and immoral assumption on a par with the sick complacent assumption back in the 1850s that the South had somehow rendered Abolition impossible! -- they left-handedly work for a single state, which is a de facto recipe for genocide of either demographic by the other. Fellow travelers compound this obscenity by total ignorance on the essence of what is meant by apartheid. Yes, the policy of bantus for the subordinate demographic is reminiscent of apartheid. But what is unfolding elsewhere, inside the internationally recognized borders of Israel proper, bloody well isn't. Inside, it may still be deplorable for other reasons, yes, but it is not apartheid. Hyperbole, never mind abject historic ignorance, helps no one.

At this point, the cretins who throw around words like "apartheid", and such sick notions as the unstoppable death of two states, have even ended up with blood on their hands. The statistics for the concluding year or so of the last decade show that the greatest hate-crime spike has been against Jews. Abuses against Jewish students in campuses across the country have also ratcheted up in a direct parallel with the increased demonization of Israel. Whether by intent or not, advocacy for the Palestinians today has been coopted as a de facto antisemitic enterprise. Its DNA grows filthier by the day. I don't know if its integrity can ever be restored. I only know I no longer want any part of it. It has ended up as a de facto movement aimed at the total destruction of Israel, a step that Abbas or the U.N. would never have taken, on their angriest days.

None of this extenuates the horrors of what Israel has unleashed in Gaza one bit, nor the sheer desecration in what Netanyahu has done to Oslo. But modern-day advocates for Palestinians now fill me with as much distrust as ever I have felt and still feel for Netanyahu.

I first threw in my lot for a good part of my life with friends who shared my outrage over the treatment of the Palestinians. For me, siding with the Palestinians was obviously the only moral choice.

But when the tenor of the Palestinian cause here in the U.S. morphed this past decade into a widespread belief that Israel should never have been launched at all, that two states was somehow impossible (!!!!!!!!!), that the only good Jewish state was a dead one, I felt I'd been had for half my life. There is no hatred so intense as self-hatred and self-contempt. When, finally, one of my friends actually remarked that I shouldn't be so put out by and exercised over Israel's extremist settlers because "what else could one expect from greedy Jews", I not only severed all connections with him but grew to profoundly distrust almost anyone with an animus against Israel and to profoundly despise my own idiocy as well in having not seen the DNA of many a Palestinian advocate long before that "friend"'s "greedy Jew" remark.

Irrational? Maybe. But finally, when the BDS movement tacitly dispensed with the notion of two states altogether (!!!!), that was the final nail in the coffin. I am now so disgusted with my own stupidity and blindness at the associations I've cultivated that my consequent profound distrust of the DNA in any advocate for the Palestinians leads me to be suspicious first and ask questions second.

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Re: Democrat Watch

#2006  Postby proudfootz » Oct 16, 2021 10:48 pm

I'd keep well away from ascribing evil to genetic factors along the lines of 'the filthy DNA' of those whose politics doesn't align with my own. Such rhetoric has a rather insalubrious history.
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2007  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 17, 2021 12:04 am

I think it's perfectly possible to acknowledge the atrocious actions of the Israeli state without even momentarily thinking to blame Jews en masse. I also think that this transparently specious false dilemma has been erected so many times now as a smoke-screen, it's worthy of being considered hackneyed.
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2008  Postby Alan C » Oct 17, 2021 9:06 pm

Meanwhile, Manchin is a wanker that's clearly looking out for his own self-interests and that of his rich donor mates, fuck climate.
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2009  Postby Stein » Oct 22, 2021 4:21 am

Spearthrower wrote:I think it's perfectly possible to acknowledge the atrocious actions of the Israeli state without even momentarily thinking to blame Jews en masse. I also think that this transparently specious false dilemma has been erected so many times now as a smoke-screen, it's worthy of being considered hackneyed.


Once one adopts the blatant double standard of advocating for a state for the Palestinians but not one for the Israelis, that is antisemitic. One sauce for the goose but another for the gander! That's a blatant one-way street right out of David Duke. Only sophistry rationalizes something that blatant as free of plain old bigotry. Tell me another.

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Re: Democrat Watch

#2010  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 22, 2021 7:08 am

Stein wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:I think it's perfectly possible to acknowledge the atrocious actions of the Israeli state without even momentarily thinking to blame Jews en masse. I also think that this transparently specious false dilemma has been erected so many times now as a smoke-screen, it's worthy of being considered hackneyed.


Once one adopts the blatant double standard of advocating for a state for the Palestinians but not one for the Israelis, that is antisemitic. One sauce for the goose but another for the gander! That's a blatant one-way street right out of David Duke. Only sophistry rationalizes something that blatant as free of plain old bigotry. Tell me another.

Stein



Which part of what I wrote suggests that I don't accept the Israeli state?

You've projected that onto what I wrote and then called it antisemitic and then likened me to being a leader of the KKK.

Frankly, this corroborates what I was saying. It's such a transparently specious false dilemma, you have to make up a load of bullshit out of thin air to maintain it.
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2011  Postby Alan C » Dec 20, 2021 11:12 pm

Manchin is still a dick.
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2012  Postby Hermit » Dec 21, 2021 4:18 am

Alan C wrote:Manchin is still a dick.

There's an acronym for people like him (and Sinema): DINO.
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2013  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Dec 21, 2021 8:03 am

Hermit wrote:
Alan C wrote:Manchin is still a dick.

There's an acronym for people like him (and Sinema): DINO.

Maybe the DINOs and RINOs should start their own party.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

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Re: Democrat Watch

#2014  Postby Seabass » Jan 14, 2022 9:29 pm

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2015  Postby Alan C » Jan 20, 2022 7:45 am

Republican's block voting rights with assists from Manchin and Sinema. Bernie has said they can expect to be primary'd.
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2016  Postby Hermit » Jan 21, 2022 7:42 am

Matthew Cooke wrote:When Democratic leadership make a big public show of being blocked and helpless, held captive by republicans and two extremist right wing democrats (while they control the house, the senate and the White House) it reminds me of that scene in Casablanca -- when Captain Renault, played by Claude Rains, after he's ordered to close Rick's Cafe shouts, "I'm shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here." -- and then collects his winnings.

Nobody is shocked.

Everybody knew exactly what was happening. We all watched in broad daylight how democrats traded away their leverage early on in the process, giving away climate-destroying fossil fuel subsidies, giving away obscene defense department budgets and making voting rights low on the priority. Until the last minute.

I don't see Democrats "failing" as the gossip media paints it.

They are doing what they always do, which is serving their donors, conveniently left out of most of the reporting, also paid for by the same donors. We're all shocked, shocked.

David Sirota put it this way in his laser sharp and well referenced assessment this morning:

"The Democratic Party is defined by a contradiction: It simultaneously promises to enrich its corporate donors and solve problems created by those same donors.

That impossibility gives us drug pricing policies that would not significantly reduce medicine prices, tax proposals that never actually address inequality, corporate handouts that don’t much help the working class, and health care policy that enriches the insurance companies already fleecing sick people.

It also gives us rotating villains who help the party’s rank-and-file lawmakers pull their bait and switch — they get to promise populist legislation they know is already doomed by Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema or some other designated malefactor of the day."

I'll post a link to David's article in the comments below. It's worth the full read.

The fact remains that we must keep lobbying our current leadership, keep fighting for voting rights, but nothing will fundamentally change if we keep electing lukewarm, bottom of the barrel corporate funded politicians as our blackmail payment to avoid being slimed by another trump.

There are alternatives. There are alternatives even within the democratic party. They just get smeared, by the corporate press, over and over again, to make it seem like the general public and middle America would never go for a politican who actually wants to serve the public! That would be "socialism"! Everybody run!

Again, shocked.

When an elected official commits themselves to refusing funding from the big businesses that is not some scary radical far left big foot. That's called integrity.

Unless we have some more of it in our cities and towns, states and senate, we're going to continue to fail at giving America the economic stability it needs to be safe, secure and thriving.

Instead we can just keep going around the culture war merry go round while the corporate donors of both parties have another record year.

As Dr. King said: "...we are dealing with issues now that will call for something of a restructuring of the architecture of American society. It is going to cost the Nation something.

.... billions of dollars. We can’t end slums in the final analysis without the necessity to take profit out of slums.

We can’t deal with the school situation in the final analysis without seeing that we are not only talking about integrating education, but we are talking about quality education, which means that millions of additional dollars will have to be spent to improve the whole education system of America.”

As Sirota put so perfectly - right now "America has something closer to the democracy of a student government, where the electeds tweak the vending machine offerings and prom themes, but don’t do much else.”

If we're going to fix the democracy problem, we're going to have to fix the economic problem -- and that means representatives who don't have an economic conflict of interest where the people get the short end of the stick, and a big fake show about how "shocked" they are every time they don't come through.

Most adults were shocked someone like Ronald Reagan could dupe the public into becoming president. Then we thought how could it get worse than Bush and Quayle. Then we watched the dumbest orange slimeball to ever slither out of a Vegas casino promise to drain the swamp and saw millions believe him. STILL believing him.

What's coming next? Do we think it's going to just get better on its own?

CNN just did a piece about Uncle Joe's habitual lying while being sure to also let us know its nowhere near as bad as Trump's pathological lying. Um... sure, no doubt... I mean 80 million of us would have voted for a fried egg at that point -- but really?

If democrats don't meaningfully face the economic inequalities inextricably intertwined with our deep racism and cultural bigotry -- head on address the housing, healthcare, poverty, climate, education, criminal justice issues, and reign in the warlord capitalism of the Amazons and Facebooks and Googles --- another, more despicable swamp creature will surely emerge, until we learn our lesson.

The democratic party platform should be simple and clear in its ethics:

- no corporate donations for politicians period
- public funding of all elections
- clear limits to political donations
- no foreign donations / gifts
- insider trading is a felony
- conflicts of interest are felonies
- lying in political ads, a felony
- gerrymandering is illegal
- the electoral college should be abolished, as was recommended by the founding father who actually penned the constitution (Gouverneur Morris)
- Washington DC should be a state
- the senate reform
- elections should be public holidays
- audit friendly voting machines with paper ballots
- Green New Deal (or call it something else like The Humans Get to Remain Alive New Deal)
- etc

And that's at the bare minimum.

These ideas shouldn't just be bills. It should be the party platform. If you don't like it, don't be in the party. This list is mostly from an excellent comment Frank Lawrence posted on this page a week ago. A party platform obviously needs to include more.

I would argue that Martin Luther King's prescription for America should be the democratic party platform. I can't comprehend arguing against it. If we need a historical example there's FDR - who defeated the Nazi's, fought off big business, and created a middle class. That's the kind of magic we can create when real democratic policies are enacted.

But we can't have that kind of country if we don't elect real democrats, which I would argue is someone who believes in people rule, not the donor class rules.

As it stands now, we can clearly see that #votebluenomatterwho in the case of Sinema and Manchin doesn't do us much good other than barely stave off the wolves. I think it's clear by what's played out in the past few months, that that extends well beyond those two. Time to clean house.


https://www.facebook.com/matthewcookeofficial/posts/476978903773688
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Re: Democrat Watch

#2017  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 21, 2022 8:17 am

Hermit wrote:
Matthew Cooke wrote:Time to clean house.


There you have it. It is time. The implementation is left as an exercise for the diligent student.

One way to handle it:


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Re: Democrat Watch

#2018  Postby Hermit » Jan 21, 2022 9:09 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
Hermit wrote:
Matthew Cooke wrote:Time to clean house.

There you have it. It is time. The implementation is left as an exercise for the diligent student.

One way to handle it:


Yes. You are right. Cooke offers not even a suggestion for how change can be brought about. I quoted his post because he explained why the Democrat Party is not going to improve the social and political landscape to a significant degree.


The bicycle video works only on the scale it is shown; confrontations between individuals. If it stands as a metaphor for something bigger, it would be a revolution and/or civil war.
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Re: Ukraine Crisis

#2019  Postby arugula2 » Apr 08, 2022 1:44 am

Wtf :lol:

Pelosi to Visit Taiwan in First Such Trip for 25 Years, FNN Says (Bloomberg, 06.04.2022)

* House speaker reportedly plans to travel to island on Sunday
* Trip is sign of support for Taipei amid Russian war in Ukraine


China demands "immediate cancellation" of Pelosi's Taiwan visit plan (XinhuaNet, 07.04.2022 23:58)

Pelosi positive for COVID-19, was at White House with Biden (Taiwan News via AP, 08.04.2022 00:11)

The 82-year-old Democratic leader’s announcement came ahead of her weekly press appearance on Capitol Hill, which was abruptly called off. The House is set to start a two week spring recess.

Pelosi also postponed a planned congressional delegation trip to Asia she was scheduled to lead.

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Re: Democrat Watch

#2020  Postby The_Piper » Apr 08, 2022 1:07 pm

Biden in for the kiss and sniffing. :lol: I posted about it on the plague thread, but yeah, it's unreal. Nobody remembers covid and masks and social distancing? Well someone remembers it now (Pelosi). Kamala's husband tested positive recently, along with Hilary, and Psaki for her 2nd time.
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