Posted: Jun 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Conversation with a denier...
Given your post presents no science whatsoever tis a bit ironic. We have a very strong chart of the global temperatures since emerging from the last ice age and we are now moving out of that envelope. We were until a couple hundred years ago drifting slowly as expected to the next ice age colder temperatures driven by orbital changes...Milankovich cycles.
Our emissions of fossil carbon have cancelled that drift.
There are 56 lines of enquiry leading to this graph summary...the "spike" as you call it is the Holocene Optimum after we exited the last glacial period and was driven by our orbital position and tilt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
Do you have an "explanation" for the sudden upward jump at the right?? ELves burning leaves ??? If you want others to cite backup....then proceed to do so yourself and back your "opinion" with supportive evidence.
Talk about sloppy - how about we concentrate on the past 10k years during which civilization arises. Changes do not happen without a reason.
Do you have any??
Since you don't want to search the thread or something easily found in google.
Yes you are not sure - that's at least refreshing - you don't know and have not read climate science articles or you would know. The sun and the climate are going in opposite directions as the graph above notes...from this article.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
Ummm I don't think you quite understand that we have raised the C02 levels of the atmosphere by 40% - levels not seen for millions of years.
This is not new and has nothing to do with volcanos. The latter generally cool the atmosphere for a couple of years by releasing SO2 into the stratosphere.
This is a result of man using fossil fuels and releasing long sequestered carbon to the atmosphere which changes the radiative balance.
If you are an honest inquirer then I suggest you follow some of the links in my signature instead of coming into a science forum so ill prepared.
You don't get to be a little bit pregnant.
If you accept..
CO2 traps IR.
Then you must follow the chain of evidence to where it leads.
It's getting warmer.
We're responsible.
People here are happy to answer your questions....but please understand you have a very poor grasp of the fundamentals at this point.
Best place to start
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/
others.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm
http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/global-warming/human-caused
This is a reasonably complete visual of the forces at work.
Feel free to ask questions. The red arrows are the crux of the problem.
More IR trapping by CO2 ...you've acknowledged it, now you know where the additional CO2 comes from .
Follow the chain of evidence.
The explanation and physics are rather simple.
What to do about it beyond trying not to make it worse is very tricky.
THAT is where the discussion needs to be.
The main premis of my post was not to debate the non-human vs. human cause of global warming, but the unscientific use of truncated charts in trying to get the "uneducated masses" to understand. Local or global, with regard to ice cores, is moot.
Given your post presents no science whatsoever tis a bit ironic. We have a very strong chart of the global temperatures since emerging from the last ice age and we are now moving out of that envelope. We were until a couple hundred years ago drifting slowly as expected to the next ice age colder temperatures driven by orbital changes...Milankovich cycles.
Our emissions of fossil carbon have cancelled that drift.
There are 56 lines of enquiry leading to this graph summary...the "spike" as you call it is the Holocene Optimum after we exited the last glacial period and was driven by our orbital position and tilt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
Do you have an "explanation" for the sudden upward jump at the right?? ELves burning leaves ??? If you want others to cite backup....then proceed to do so yourself and back your "opinion" with supportive evidence.
Fact is there have been large changes both directions in the past.
Talk about sloppy - how about we concentrate on the past 10k years during which civilization arises. Changes do not happen without a reason.
Do you have any??
The bit about the "sun declining" needs citing.
Since you don't want to search the thread or something easily found in google.
The sunspot activity cycles about every 11 years, so I'm not sure what you mean.
Yes you are not sure - that's at least refreshing - you don't know and have not read climate science articles or you would know. The sun and the climate are going in opposite directions as the graph above notes...from this article.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
the dreaded "greenhouse gasses" are NOT some mysterious man-made product. Mostly CO2 which has waxed and waned in cycles. True, no recent volcano has spewed GHG into the air recently, but looking at the last 10,000 years worth of temp. data I see nothing out of the ordinary recently. In fact there was a MUCH larger spike several thousand years ago, and in the mid 20th century a deep dip. You can't take a small piece of a mountain graph and prove a point. Heck, I could flip a coin 10,000 times get 10 tails in a row, and show you only the 40 flips that proceeded it and say the coin is faulty. Proper use of raw data is all I ask for. For the record I DO believe humans have been partially at fault for the increase in CO2 and other GHG...
Ummm I don't think you quite understand that we have raised the C02 levels of the atmosphere by 40% - levels not seen for millions of years.
This is not new and has nothing to do with volcanos. The latter generally cool the atmosphere for a couple of years by releasing SO2 into the stratosphere.
How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities?
Filed under: Climate Science FAQ Greenhouse gases Paleoclimate — eric @ 22 December 2004 - (Svenska) (Español) (Français)
- See more at: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/how-do-we-know-that-recent-cosub2sub-increases-are-due-to-human-activities-updated/#sthash.Qms6WrZm.dpuf
This is a result of man using fossil fuels and releasing long sequestered carbon to the atmosphere which changes the radiative balance.
If you are an honest inquirer then I suggest you follow some of the links in my signature instead of coming into a science forum so ill prepared.
You don't get to be a little bit pregnant.
If you accept..
CO2 traps IR.
Then you must follow the chain of evidence to where it leads.
It's getting warmer.
We're responsible.
People here are happy to answer your questions....but please understand you have a very poor grasp of the fundamentals at this point.
Best place to start
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/
others.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm
http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/global-warming/human-caused
This is a reasonably complete visual of the forces at work.
Feel free to ask questions. The red arrows are the crux of the problem.
More IR trapping by CO2 ...you've acknowledged it, now you know where the additional CO2 comes from .
Follow the chain of evidence.
The explanation and physics are rather simple.
What to do about it beyond trying not to make it worse is very tricky.
THAT is where the discussion needs to be.