rationalskepticism.org

aban57 wrote:

DefineGod wrote:Define pray.

Like i said, I'm very pragmatic. So to me, praying is the action of speaking to an entity, asking him/her/it something. Food, love, money, anything. Or thanking him for what he/she/it supposedly provided you. Is that what you do in your "meditations" ?

It is my understanding that some Christians are taught to pray this way, yes. As a child, I was taught to start with an opening, followed by asking, thanking, and closing. As I became older I excogitated what purpose could be behind this ritual as I learned more complex prayer structures. I surmise that begging, pleading, or groveling, thanking, isn't necessarily the best way for all, rather awareness of what might be of foremost importance or primacy in self, family, or community. This "meditation" is a process of "apprehension" as Aggie helped to define here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprehension_%28understanding%29 So really, pragmatically, I would say prayer has a number of uses.

A modified version of Colossians 1:9-14 is my favorite prayer. I find much beauty in these words. Of course, you have to find a translation that fits you. The one I have tattooed on my forehead, I mean, the version I keep in my mobile/cell/handy is

"And we pray this, that you may live a life worthy of the Lord: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God and being strengthened with all power according to this glorious might so you may endure with patience and joy. We give thanks in knowing that it is through faith which we will inherit the kingdom of light.

good stuff I say.

DefineGod wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/#GodNat[/url] Under the section 2.1 God and Nature, there is a section on how belief in miracles is more likely ignorance of cause. A more consistent view of God would claim that "miracles" or exceptions to laws is less, rather than more, congruent to an omnipresent being.


I was more speaking about Christian miracles, like the virgin birth, Jesus' resurrection, the flood, etc.

Okey Dokey. Personally, I don't see a difference between Christian miracles, and any other miracles especially if you are using supernatural explanation rather than metaphor or allegory. I am not sure if Mr. Spinoza felt the same. Although I think we both agree that the representation of God is better when it is consistently following rules, rather than intervening "willy nilly," or was it "humpty dumpty." I forget.

DefineGod wrote:
What do you mean by believe in the Bible? Are you trying to ask me if I take literalistic interpretation? I have spend some time with Genesis. Its fun stuff when you look at it through my lens.
{Hey self!, who you calling crazy! }

yes, it's what i meant All christians and catholics on this planet have different percentage of literalistic interpretation of the bible. What's your percentage ? From what i read from you so far I don't think you believe it's entirely true. So what do you think is true in the bible ?

Hehe, is that like asking me what my sign is? I'm an Aquaaaarius, and 23 and 1/2 percent creationist. Ah ha!, I think there are many truths in the Bible, but I consider them relative truth if behavioral, or absolute truth if metaphysical. Sometimes its hard to find the difference. Sometimes I have trouble with translation. Sometimes I find better sources. When doing Bible study or reading one must either assimilate or accommodate. I find constant assimilation necessary. Here is a source explaining the difference. http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/assimacc.htm

DefineGod wrote:
I am wrong. I don't mean to imply atheism is set of of beliefs, practices or actions. What I should have said is: atheism is an abstract term used to describe what someone is not. I should have gone on to say, that everyone behaves. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_behavior_analysis#Behavior Using the dead man's test, atheism is not behavior. Since as you magnanimously granted my use of the word "faith" (without necessarily accepting its meaning of course) I can only hope you will extend this to my question. What do atheists have faith in?

Aggie already answered that question, so I'll just quote her :

Agrippina wrote:
Trying to get atheists to agree to a set system would be the same as trying to standardize the behavior of cats.

DefineGod wrote:
This is a very good point! Why is it important at all? I live my life, you live yours. You find comfort in religion, I find it the opium of the masses. There are so many sides to this question. I don't want to limit this as a "What's the meaning of life?" type question. As a pragmatic man, would you build your own car? of course not! Why build my own religion when there are so many good ones to choose from? (I drive a biodiesel Mercedes, because I like the smell of popcorn. ) I see the importance of your question. I understand symbols to exist all around us. I simply choose God as the one I "worship" (read-respect)

Ok, fair enough, but that doesn't really answer my question. If god is just a symbol, why do you worship him ?

Why not? you find something better? I can accommodate if I need to. Which part do you have a problem with? The word "worship?" Since I don't subscribe to a fear or guilt based doctrine, worship is an act of love. I feel that many people have experienced this word but would call it something like "the feeling of respect for the qualities of the everlasting" perhaps. That's not a very good definition is it? Symbols are very powerful things. Here is a great source on Math and how it might apply to certain concepts of God. http://everythingforever.com/st_math.htm