Posted: May 05, 2012 6:14 am
AtheismIsIrrational wrote:Calilasseia fails to understand that she is using logical positivism (scientism) to defend her position. Where is the scientific evidence that minds other than your own exist?
If i can offer you one piece of advice. Listen and learn. Cali is one of the most brilliant minds in the world, and having access to him the way you have hear, is not a small privilege.
If you are keen to learn more, don't fight Cali, learn from him.
It's a philosophical justification. It PROVIDES why an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving God to allow evil. It doesn't have to be true. Philosophy is much more different than science.
It's not philosophy. People who believe God exists, are not arguing from a philosophical point of view, they are arguing from a point of view that is biased towards believing in things that make them feel secure and comforted. Believing in, particularly the god of the Bible, justifies the behaviour of hating people who don't believe in that god, and allays the fear of death, which is present in most people who can't conceive of a world without them in it. It's a psychological bandaid, not a philosophical one.
Also, why are people judging God's morality? On what objective basis can you judge God? None. Atheism cannot provide an objective reason why the God of the Old Testament is evil.
Objectivity is exactly what we all ought to employ when evaluating anything. Most people who haven't been trained from childhood to be objective in their judgments tend to look at everything from their personal, i.e. subjective point of view. You can't imagine that the universe existed for almost 14 million years before you were born, but you can imagine that there was some time before your grandmother was born when you didn't exist, and 5,000 or 6,000 years sounds like a nice big number that fits into your frame of reference (and I mean people in general when I say "you" not you personally). From the point of view of psychology, people like comfort zones, and the god of the Bible is a lovely comfort zone. And like we accept that our fathers are strict and sometimes unreasonable, they are our fathers and we love them, warts and all. Also we take exception when someone criticizes our fathers. Which is why people who believe that their god is the only god take exception when people who don't believe he exists, criticize him. It's a subjective point of view because God is your personal god.
But just like I have no emotional attachment to your physical father, I also have no emotional attachment to your metaphysical one. I might meet another person's dad, who they love, very dearly, and judge him to be a complete ass, that is my subjective judgment, and as a free member of society, I'm entitled to do that. In the same way that as an indifferent observer of your attachment to your metaphysical father, i.e. God, I'm entitled to judge him from the evidence presented to me for his existence, and for his, for example, attitude towards children:
Lev 26:27 If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
Numbers 14:33-34 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness. After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
Deuteronomy 21 18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard. 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Deuteronomy 28:53:And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD they God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straightness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee
Deuteronomy 28:57:And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.
2 Kings 6:28-29 This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him.
2 Kings 6:28-29 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him and she hath hid her son....
2 Kings 6:28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.
2 Kings 6:29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him and she hath hid her son.
Proverbs 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.
Proverbs 23:13: Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.
Isaiah 9 19-20 By the wrath of the LORD Almighty the land will be scorched and the people will be fuel for the fire; no one will spare his brother. On the right they will devour, but still be hungry; on the left they will eat, but not be satisfied.
Isaiah 13:15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.
Jeremiah 19:9 I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh in the siege and in the distress with which their enemies and those who seek their life will distress them. '
Ezekiel 5:10 Therefore fathers shall eat their sons in your midst, and sons shall eat their fathers. And I will execute judgments on you, and any of you who survive I will scatter to all the winds.
1 Timothy 3:4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect
Revelation 2:22-23:..And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.