Posted: Aug 30, 2013 3:15 pm
by Rumraket
Mick wrote:
Shrunk wrote: That's one of the defining differences between methodological naturalism and some other philosophical positions, namely parsimony. While teleology cannot be ruled out thru empirical means, presuming its existence offers no explanatory power beyond that available from a purely mechanical model of the process.


Modern science only looks for the mechanistic explanations. That final causation offers nothing in that respect is obvious. That is why scientists need not worry too much about final causes, it is not all too relevant to their project. It is also why I, nor many Catholics, feel threatened by science. It is only when scientists or laymen think that science offers a full explanation do we call foul.

Well, it may not offer a full explanation of all the facts, but at least it offers one. And whatever it offers, has some kind of utility value.

Your metaphysical eructations are non-explanations, they don't tell us anything about how things work. They also can't be used to do anything. It's nothing but ad hoc rationalizations.

Mick wrote:
Shrunk wrote:Adding teleology to evolutionary theory is like adding fairies to to automotive mechanics; you can describe the workings of the internal combustion engine fully thru mechanical principles alone. Then, if you want to add at the end "But it only works because of the fairies. We can't detect them in any way, but if the fairies weren't there, the engine wouldn't work," no one can falsify your claim. But that would not make it any less superfluous.


We can agree to disagree here, but even if that were true, my point remains: if they are unfalsifiable, you can't say that there evolution does not involve final causes. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

We also can't falsify Carl Sagan's invisible dragon, but guess what that idea is worth? Your metamphysics seem to have this curiouos property of looking like it was deliberately designed to be untouchable by science. The kind of philosphy and theology you represent was created in response to the almost recurrent event that every time theists made empirical claims, they were eventually falsified. So theologians learned their lesson and came up with ever more vague and incomprehensible conceptions of god's plans, actions and will. Unfortunately for you, this also means you can't use it to do anything tangible with real-world impact. For example, no amount of philosophizing on your part will ever produce a workable vaccine.