Posted: Jun 11, 2018 3:13 am
SafeAsMilk wrote:PensivePenny wrote:SafeAsMilk wrote:PensivePenny wrote:
Point is, I think you're overestimating the efficacy of planting seeds. It's far more virtuous to continue to believe the more evidence there is against it. For that mentality, seeds of doubt are nutrient rich vitamin supplements.
I don't really find this to be true. It's an erosion of faith, but can be rebuilt if it's isolated. Sure, it's virtuous to believe in the face of evidence, but that only takes you so far. It takes effort to maintain that facade.
That's not what I've witnessed first hand. There is joy for many of the being challenged with facts.
I don't think religions would put so much effort into helping people maintain their faith in the face of the facts if that were true.
I'm pretty sure that's a fallacy, though I'm not sure which one. Appeal to tradition?
In the moment a person may seem to enjoy defying the facts you present, either because it feels good to express their faith or to defy your attitude that they might perceive as you trying to make them feel dumb. But people usually don't discard their faith in a moment, it's gradual and there's a lot of layers to break down. There's a great video series that explains this, but I saw it years ago and I'll have to find it again. I found a lot of parallels to my loss of faith.
You're presuming I was the one arguing with the theist? I've witnessed it happening to christian friends when I was one too. They weren't putting their guard up with ME! I was the one they high fived afterward.
Telling someone the Bible is dumb isn't any sort of challenge at all.
But even if what you said was so, what would be the better way to get at them?
Aww, that's sweet. You think I want to "get at them?" I don't. I'll be dead soon. I have no children. So, what ever happens to this world is of no matter to me. I figure humans will become extinct within the next 10 generations anyway, so it's all meaningless if you get down to it. Especially for me, my run will conclude soon enough.
Plant seeds that may or may not be effective, or tell them that the Bible is dumb? Can you put yourself in the shoes of another person to see how that comes across?
Oh, I most certainly can. Probably even better than you'd imagine. I used to do that all the time. I just don't care anymore.
Used to do what all the time?
Empathize, I guess you could call it. I was a good kid. I always tried to imagine how others felt about everything I said and did. I think a lot of "empathy" is imagination but you also have to read people without making assumptions based on how you think you'd feel. The mile in moccasins idiom is one of the oldest I recall from my childhood. It was very much a part of my being.