Posted: Oct 10, 2019 10:12 am
by Thommo
Svartalf wrote:well, Nazism was interesting in that it was deeply right wing (repressive and pro capitalist), but used lefty methods (National SOCIALIST Workers Party of Germany) to win popular support.


They used the words, not the ideas, let alone the methods. I think about the only arguably genuine bit of left wing policy they implemented was a programme of national infrastructure works which got a lot of the men back into employment in the 30s (though this was inherited from the preceding conservative government anyway, I believe). It's like thinking the Democratic People's Republic of Korea must be democratic just because it has "democratic" in the name.

Sometimes people just lie. Turns out Hitler and Goebbels were among those people.

I don't think the Nazis were particularly pro capitalism either mind you, there's certainly an interesting point of history to discuss. I read various articles earlier, such as:

https://fullfact.org/online/nazis-socialists/
The issue of whether the Nazis were socialists isn’t a straightforward one, due to how the Nazi party developed and grew its base of support. But the consensus among historians is that the Nazis, and Hitler in particular, were not socialists in any meaningful sense.

Historians have regularly disavowed claims that Hitler adhered to socialist ideology. Historian Richard Evans wrote of the Nazis’ incorporation of socialist into their name in 1920, “Despite the change of name, however, it would be wrong to see Nazism as a form of, or an outgrowth from, socialism….Nazism was in some ways an extreme counter-ideology to socialism”. Or as simply put by historian and Hitler expert Ian Kershaw, “Hitler was never a socialist.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Ideology
National Socialist politics was based on competition and struggle as its organizing principle, and the Nazis believed that "human life consisted of eternal struggle and competition and derived its meaning from struggle and competition."[168] The Nazis saw this eternal struggle in military terms, and advocated a society organized like an army in order to achieve success. They promoted the idea of a national-racial "people's community" (Volksgemeinschaft) in order to accomplish "the efficient prosecution of the struggle against other peoples and states."[169] Like an army, the Volksgemeinschaft was meant to consist of a hierarchy of ranks or classes of people, some commanding and others obeying, all working together for a common goal.[169] This concept was rooted in the writings of 19th century völkisch authors who glorified medieval German society, viewing it as a "community rooted in the land and bound together by custom and tradition," in which there was neither class conflict nor selfish individualism.[170]

Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class conflict, and it praised both German capitalists and German workers as essential to the Volksgemeinschaft. In the Volksgemeinschaft, social classes would continue to exist, but there would be no class conflict between them.[171] Hitler said that "the capitalists have worked their way to the top through their capacity, and as the basis of this selection, which again only proves their higher race, they have a right to lead."[172] German business leaders co-operated with the Nazis during their rise to power and received substantial benefits from the Nazi state after it was established, including high profits and state-sanctioned monopolies and cartels.[173] Large celebrations and symbolism were used extensively to encourage those engaged in physical labour on behalf of Germany, with leading National Socialists often praising the "honour of labour", which fostered a sense of community (Gemeinschaft) for the German people and promoted solidarity towards the Nazi cause.[174] To win workers away from Marxism, Nazi propaganda sometimes presented its expansionist foreign policy goals as a "class struggle between nations."[172] Bonfires were made of school children's differently coloured caps as symbolic of the unity of different social classes.[175]

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/ ... ocialists/

If you look at actual 20th and 21st century left wing core concepts: Trade unionism, minimum wages, employees rights, the welfare state, diversity, progressivism, liberalism, tolerance, human rights they are each and every one absent from Nazism.

Of course many core (centre-) right wing concepts are also absent (and there is some overlap with core left wing ideas when it comes to tolerance and liberalism for example). But that's because it was a totalitarian ideology based on racism, militarism and nationalism.