Posted:

**Aug 12, 2010 2:49 am**AMR wrote:BTW, How do you know without making any observations? It would be by definition unempirical and unscientific speculation or interpretation hence my reference to a verity of published opinion on the subject; And I know you continue to be hung up on a fairly obvious misapprehension (or perhaps you feign ignorance) of that quote I cited, in which "fundamental property of the universe" simply means the observer cannot help interacting with any observed system. You seem to think it is the "blur" itself that is fundamental to the universe. No! the blur results from the physical act of observation.hackenslash: The uncertainty principle is a fundamental property of the universe and doesn't require observations. the uncertainty principle exists without observation.

Sorry AMR did you really type the above? It is factually incorrect.

We know that the uncertainty principle is a fundamental property of quantum systems because of the wave-particle duality of the actors in such systems.

I'm sure you've seen the probability clouds for the position of an electron around a nucleus. Another way to visualise the same is to think of a wave passing through all points on that probability cloud. To localise the electron you must compress the wave from many indeterminate points down towards a single point - simple graphing reveals that this activity must also compress the wave function.

Now, the momentum of the particle is proportional to the wavelength of the wave function. When the wave function is not compressed, the wavelenth at any point is easy to determine ie. you know the momentum but the position is uncertain. When you compress the wave function, there are proportionately many possibilities for which particular loop of the sine wave gives rise to the momentum of the particle ie. localising position inherently increases uncertainty about momentum.

The uncertainty principle is a property of quantum particles due to their wave-particle duality. Demonstrating it is a matter of simple probabilty and graphing.

Can we stop arguing over the uncertainty principle now?