Posted: Jun 06, 2012 3:56 pm
by Nostalgia
backmarker wrote:Thanks everybody.

MacIver wrote:Welcome to the forum! :cheers:

You should start a thread in the Theism section outlining your beliefs. We're quite good at putting labels on things here. :)


I doubt they're original enough to deserve their own thread? A few ideas I'm currently persuaded by:


Okay, here we go...! :)

  • I exist and I can know things :grin:


Ohh, I like it. It's like "I think therefore I am" but coming at it from the opposite direction: "I am therefore I think"!

  • there has always been something; nothing comes from nothing


  • Agreed. But I would expand upon it. Nothing can come nothing nor something lead to nothing. So there can only be two options to existence: Eternal existence or eternal non-existence. Because obviously existence exists, according to my logic it must of always of done so.

  • there is a first cause, and it was uncaused


  • I'm confused. How can you state there was "always something" and that there is a "first cause"? If there has always been something, then whatever caused the first cause must of had it's own cause, no? Which leads to the old atheistic question: "If God created everything who created God?".

    For me it comes down to a simple question, basically a form of Occam's Razor:

    What is most likely out of these two highly unlikely occurrences?

    That existence is eternal, both into the past and the future. That it simple exists because the alternative, non-existence is even less likely.

    OR

    That a creator being complex enough to bring existence into existence is eternal.


  • there's no such thing as literal randomness, e.g. effects with no cause


  • That is certainly true for our current cosmic expansion, and I suspect it is true for all of reality. But as we have no observations of the nature of anything out with our observable universe that would just be speculation on our part.

  • it's not possible for creatures to fully comprehend a creator, but a creator has the ability to reveal certain knowledge to creatures


  • Hypothetically, I could agree with this. But as I explained I think the idea of a creator is an unnecessary variable to the formula of existence.

  • evolution (not sure of exact definition, but I have an idea) to some extent is observable fact


  • Abso-fooking-lutely! :thumbup: