Posted: Apr 09, 2012 8:21 pm
UndercoverElephant wrote:No. It's trying to say "we are the same. There is no difference." Equality is not the same thing as identity. In the UK, gays are already equal.
Oh, oh wow... I'm curious as to know what your age is because I'm thinking it's nothing over 25...
So what if we want to be the same, anyways? Sorry that's such a problem for you. Isn't it a natural human instinct to conform, anyways?
No, it's not sentimentality. I think there are fundamental facts, based on our biology and natural cultural development, which underlying the traditional concept of marriage.
Well then you sure have a way of making it sound really sentimental.
Let me give it some perspective...
I also believe human beings are naturally tribal animals.
Yet we get along fine in large groups.
That is to say that we are psychologically predisposed to operate as small groups where everybody knows everybody else, and the whole landbase is known to all.
Which we already do. This is what "friends" are. This is what "social groups" are.
I think many of the problems of the modern world stem from our alienation from this natural state. I also think our culture is largely driven by our need to fill this lost natural social environment (hence the popularity of following football teams or watching soap operas). That's the way humans are made, and our cultural systems reflect it (poorly, in that case, which is why we're screwing up the planet.)
Our culture is driven by natural needs. Shopping is hunting. Gaming is survival. Friends are social. The internet supplies multiple natural needs.
These needs become addictive. That's why a lot of drugs are addictive, because they set off chemicals in our head that we'd get from doing things like hunting successfully and eating a meal after a long day's chase. This is also why the internet is addicting because it grants these as well.
If you think we should be more natural, you ought to throw away your computer, toss away your clothes, almost never clean yourself, and stop being lazy because there is a loooooooooooooooooooooong life ahead of you full of misery and depression.
The above isn't "sentimental." We are tribal animals. That is our natural state.
Yes, let's embrace our natural state. Like murdering people we hate. And dejecting people from society for going against the norm.
Are we naturally heterosexually monogamous? No, we aren't.
... And that's where natural selection comes in, baby!
Culture speeds up evolution, by the way. Hope you know that too.
Take away thousands of years of cultural development and you will probably find the natural state of humans is one of partial monogamy but always tending towards powerful males having multiple wives.
You've never felt jealousy, have you?
I know we aren't monogamous but a strong reason behind it is because of jealousy. Nothing feels greater than have 3 wives and favoring one over the other two where they find out and begin to hate that bitch and her ugly mole and oversized butt and they try to win the affection of their lovely husband.
But this causes wider social problems, because it leads to large numbers of males who have no wives at all, so most human cultures have, at some point, intentionally outlawed that sort of polygamy (sometimes via religious laws, sometimes via secular laws, sometimes just due to tribal custom.)
Personally I don't care if you like to do polygamy. Just make sure everyone consents.
And I don't think that's the exact reason for outlawing polygamy...pretty sure it's more about religious reasons.
The result is our cultural institution of marriage between a man and a woman being the normal state. Homosexuality always existed, of course, and has been regarded very differently by different cultures at different times. But it was always regarded as different to marriage, everywhere and always, apart from now...
THERE IT IS. That sentimental bullshit.
It's always been regard as such. It's just BEEN that way don't change it. That's terrible. How dare you stray away from tradition. This is why the Middle East should continue to stone their women: it's always been that way!
No. You are already equal. You want to claim everyone is the same, and they aren't.
But people don't recognize it as equal. It's not about us, it's about the people around us because in case you haven't noticed humans are fucking stupid.
Soon civil unions and marriage will become terms like "boy" and "girl" and they'll just be so different and so norm'd up where it feels disgusting to escape those norms.