Posted: Apr 19, 2012 8:34 am
Strontium Dog wrote:mattwilson wrote:When someone publicly signs a document saying we promise to vote against any rise in tuition fees, and then votes in favour of a rise in tuition fees, what would you call that?
I don't call it lying. Lying is when you sign a pledge like that with the intention of going back on it later.
If I say I'm going to the shops to buy some bread, but I get there and it's all sold out, and I return home empty-handed, I wasn't lying. If I say I'm going to give my last £10 to charity but it's stolen from me by muggers before I can donate it, then I wasn't lying.
Your analogies get worse, as has been pointed out, they had the option to vote against or abstain. They promised to vote against any rise, they then voted for it when presented with the opportunity.
Strontium Dog wrote:
Isn't it funny how people can clearly see the difference between intentional misleading and changed circumstances which render promises undeliverable in real life situations, yet when it comes to politicians they're not prepared to see it?
It wasn't underliverable though was it, they retained the right to vote against or abstain, only a small number abstained.
Strontium Dog wrote:I think perhaps people are just not used to truthful politicians. A calculating politician would never have made that pledge in the first place! It would be political suicide. Liberals are naively honest. It's our fatal flaw.
They publicly promised to vote against rises then voted for, if that is what you call honest you may want to get a new dictionary. Preferably one not authored by George W Bush
Strontium Dog wrote:mattwilson wrote:There is provision in the health and social care bill for the cessation of services which then must be sought privately, there is provision in the health and social care bill for the outsourcing of NHS work to for profit medical organisations such as BUPA. It is the opening gambit of privatisation by another name.
There has been an element of private provision in the NHS since day one. Every GP is private and profit-making. Every dentist is private and profit-making. This is the way it has always been. Everything else is manipulative bullshit from unscrupulous politicians trying to play on people's emotions by invoking our national religion, the NHS. Shame on anyone who falls for it.
The cessation of services that were previously covered by the NHS and the supply of these services being handed over to the private sector at cost is a very real scenario and is not manipulative bullshit.