Posted: Oct 03, 2017 8:50 pm
ronmcd wrote:Tracer Tong wrote:ronmcd wrote:Tracer Tong wrote:I expect that, whatever he chose to do, it wouldn't have been to steam ahead with a referendum anyway.
Oh I dunno, I suspect it may well have been. We certainly wouldn't have had riot police battering people who tried to vote, there would likely have been a much more polite and sensible response, with the unionist parties telling pro union voters to keep away, and the turnout and result would have made it largely irrelevant.
It all seems fairly outlandish to me. The modern-day SNP is committed to achieving independence via strictly legal means, which is participating in a long British, and Scottish, ideal of respecting the rule of law; and Salmond strikes me as a supporter of that approach. Had he faced a situation in which permission for a referendum was refused, he would probably have just campaigned, through the courts and in the media, to have that refusal overturned, rather than unilaterally declare he was having a referendum anyway. Even on the pretty unlikely scenario of his making such a declaration, I'm not sure whether Scots (along with everyone else) would so much approve or disapprove of his decision as just be completely nonplussed.
We're not talking a unilateral 'declaration' of anything, certainly not independence, but the legality of holding a referendum to gauge support was on the cards at the time. The legality of holding a consultative referendum was debated and argued with opinions on both sides, it just became irrelevant. It might have happened, it may even have been legal. The argument at the time was that the referendum would have been challenged in the supreme court to find out, as I believe the Spanish govt did recently in their case, and won.
I know we're not talking about a declaration of independence; I merely referred an announcement that a referendum would be held despite permission being refused. I've outlined why I don't think such a referendum would ever have been attempted, had that permission not been granted; it's just not the way British or Scottish politics works, generally speaking. If you say you're not suggesting one would have been announced, then we're in some agreement about what Salmond would have done had David Cameron refused the request.
On the matter of Catalonia, Felipe has now been on the television roasting the Catalan government. I wonder if this is a prelude to an effective end of autonomous status.