Posted: May 06, 2020 5:17 pm
NineBerry wrote:CdeLosada wrote:What about a newborn baby?
A newborn baby is conscious, on a lot lower level than an adult but it is. I wouldn't want to hurt any other mammal, either. I don't mind abortion on the other hand, as long as the brain of the foetus hasn't evolved so far that there is potential for consciousness.paceetrate wrote:So even though they show all the signs of experiencing pain, if a person was brain damaged enough that you thought they weren't really experiencing pain, you wouldn't mind inflicting harm on them.
I hope to hell you never become a doctor or a nurse.
I'd have to pretty sure. But please explain what your problem with that is. Imagine: The small brain and the larger brain are without function. What exactly is the harm caused then?Gallstones wrote:Wait a minute, pain, by definition would be those sensations that are unpleasant and that induce an organism to move away from or avoid the source or cause of the pain.
If you want to define it that way. Your definition is not so good though, because it already contains the idea of "unpleasantness" whereas that is the real question we are discussing: Can insects really feel "unpleasant" or "discomfort"?
What I say is that an organism can have mechanism that trigger a reaction to certain stimuli without actually feeling anything about it. Insects simply don't have the capacity to be "aware" of much anything.Gallstones wrote:So if an organism has the capacity to be aware of the different qualities of sensations such that there are some that are desirable and some that are to be avoided, then splitting hairs about whether "feeling" equates to "suffering" is moot.
So, a robot with a heat sensor that is programmed to move away when there is too much heat is suffering when you apply heat to him? And it would be unethical to do so?
Have you ever watched insects deal with dangerous situations? They certainly don't seem to avoid them. A fly surrounding a hit light bulb will constantly hit it. It won't stop it because touching the hot bulb "hurts".Gallstones wrote:A perception of pain is a perception of pain and if pain can be perceived then the organism can be made to experience unpleasantness. I don't think trying to quantify unpleasantness gives the infliction of pain a pass.
So playing video games is unethical?
I’ve been thinking of your posts here for the last 10 years.
As far as animals like insects are concerned, I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re right, although for slightly different reasons. What I think now is that higher-order consciousness seems necessary to suffer, even if an actual painful stimulus is present. The reason is that an insect, even if it were capable of feeling the sensation of pain, would be incapable of suffering from it, because probably each nanosecond of pain would be felt as unique and independent from the others, even if the painful stimulus were continuous. And a nanosecond is like nothing... I develop the idea a bit further here: https://medium.com/@cdelosada/pain-and- ... 1df2e33852