Posted: Jul 25, 2010 4:23 pm
by Shrunk
amused wrote: But they get to that point from the assumption/assertion that the entire universe is also designed. That's the basic assertion that must be disproven first. Nitpicking at anything less is avoiding the bigger question.


I think you're conflating Intelligent Design with theism in general. According to the latter, of course, everything in the universe is "designed" in some sense. That is different than the specific claim of proponents of ID, which is that they have a metric by which they can discern "design" from the inherent qualities of an entity. That, I believe, is the claim that Cali is attempting to address in this thread. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm mistaken.

The fact that this claim needs to be reconciled with the fact that, according to their beliefs, everything is designed is a further complication that makes the ID position even less tenable. But that's their problem, not ours.