Posted: Nov 14, 2010 7:13 pm
Weaver wrote:Oh, bollocks (to cop a phrase from my Brit friends ...)darwin2 wrote:I use the term "probably" because I don't have any scientific evidence to prove they will occur.
In that case, you should say "possibly" at most - although even that word implies a possibility not supported by available evidence.But if consciousness does continue after death, I would have to assume this could be a scary experience for an atheist who believed that consciousness ceases at the death of the physical body.
And if invisible pink unicorns are roaming the Earth disguised as gorilla farts, I would have to assume their horns could be hazardous to any emus flying nearby. However, that's no reason to really worry about unicorns, gorilla farts, or flying emus.I have known atheists to be very logical people and I assume that once they find themselves in an after death environment, they will use their critical thinking skills to explore this new reality. In this lifetime, we humans have the ability to do critical thinking to arrive at facts about our world. If consciousness continues after death, I find it unlikely we will lose this precious gift and that is why I use this term "probably."
Well, as demonstrated above, you shouldn't use the word "probably" - it means "greater liklihood of occurance than not", it is a value judgement between two potential outcomes, and you haven't shown that there is any liklihood or probability at all on your side.In addressing the question does death end consciousness or does consciousness continue after death, I stated that there is a 50% chance it does and a 50% chance it doesn't.
Yes, I noted this blind assertion - do you intend to supply any facts to back up this conclusion, or will you continue asserting this value judgement contrary to all observational reality? Just because you don't know what the value is doesn't make it 50% likely.You state that the survival of consciousness is a very very unlikely event and this statement is very unscientific because you have no evidence to prove it is very very unlikely. The most you can conclude is that there is a 50% chance it is unlikely. At this point in time, my statement that there is a 50% chance consciousness continues after death and a 50% chance it doesn't is more realistic. And that is the most science can say at this time on this issue.
Thus far there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that consciousness is independent of the brain. Everything we have seen so far suggests quite strongly that it is a function of, and contained within, the brain. Therefore, the highest probablilty is that when the brain stops, so does consciousness.
Certainly it cannot be PROVEN 100% that consciousness cannot exist independently - proving a negative is impossible. But as there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that consciousness can or has continued after brain death, there is no reason to believe otherwise. The probability should not be assessed as simply 50%/50% - there is no supporting evidence whatsoever to suggest lasting consciousness, so one cannot grant such a high probability.Because if you are going to assert a high liklihood of occurance - in something like consciousness lasting beyond brain death, this value could be as low as 0.000001% and still be considered "high" - you need to demonstrate a method whereby it is possible. You haven't.Now as to what form consciousness will take if it survives death, I have no idea what that may be. So why speculate on it?So, having started the topic, you now don't want to discuss it because we cannot know?If we survive death we will know. If death ends it all, it is a moot issue
Probable is the correct and appropriate word. The theme of this thread is does consciousness continues after death or does it end with death. The use of the word probable here simply means there is no scientific evidence at this moment in time to support either possibility. In this context the use of probable is both correct and appropriate as is the use of 50%.
Science has made great advances in understanding the functioning of the brain but unfortunately they have become
arrogant and delusional when they state their data almost certainly proves that death of the physical body ends consciousness. The sad thing is that their arrogance and delusions on this issue has brainwashed many into believing that it is not possible or extremely unlikely that consciousness can continue after death.
Sir, your last statement"So, having started the topic, you now don't want to discuss it because we cannot know?"is rather silly. Obviously at this time we can't discuss it because we don't even know if an afterlife exists. But if it does exist, I suggest the Scientific Method to explore it. Truthfully your statement "And if invisible pink unicorns are roaming the Earth disguised as gorilla farts, I would have to assume their horns could be hazardous to any emus flying nearby. However, that's no reason to really worry about unicorns, gorilla farts, or flying emus" is also extraordinarily silly and has no bearing on the theme of this thread.