Posted: May 14, 2010 9:37 pm
by Kenaz
jerome wrote:
JWG wrote:jerome-

I agree that the phenomena of what we as a collective have come to call "ghosts" is not "supernatural", but merely a phenomena we do not have sufficient empirical evidence and understanding of the circumstances that are involved in said phenomena. I agree with the notion (who's author and exact phrasing eludes me at the moment) can be paraphrased along the lines that the supernatural is merely the natural not known/understood yet. I don't think we should shrug off this encounter so many people obviously experience, but I don't think we should claim we know what is going on without sufficient evidence either, that's speculation. We have a lot of theories of what this phenomena is, but really, it's all assumption and speculation and lacking clear evidence still; at least to my knowledge. As always, I welcome this evidence, and my mind is always open to change where that evidence leads me.

:cheers:


Hi JWG - I think we are in full agreement here. Ghosts, if such exist, are to my mind products of and explicable by natural laws. As such, they are a valid subject for scientific investigation. Those law may well not yet be fully understood - but for a sizeable number of "ghost" experiences they are - hallucination, neurology, medicine and wishful thinking. Some re,main however outside our current understanding, and anomalies fascinate me[b]...As i have said before, external natural causes of misperception I think account for a small number of cases, hoaxing a smaller percentage, and internally generated causes (psychological, medical, neurological) a LOT more. Yet there remains some highly strange material that is explicable by no generally recognised scientific hypothesis -and that's what I want to look at[b]...I guess a good debate question might be "Ghosts exist and are more than misperception, delusion or imagination, but represent a phenomena currently unexplained by science".[/b][/b]


Could you provide some evidence of any case where said phenomena where a causality of "hallucination, neurology, medicine, and wishful thinking" were not involved? I am speaking of what you mention as the documented phenomena that remains as "highly strange...that is explicable by no generally recognised scientific hypothesis." Something that provides evidence that these phenomena are something "more than misperception, delusion or imagination, but represent a phenomena currently unexplained by science."

I am open minded, but of course skeptical. :thumbup: