rationalskepticism.org

Thommo wrote:My point is that active disbelief (as opposed to merely withholding belief) is usually justified in the situations where people apply it, even if the reasons aren't always articulated. There are of course situations in which disbelief is not justified e.g. if someone claims that there is life somewhere outside our solar system, since we know that life is possible but we have absolutely no means of assigning probabilities within the small finite set (only two options - there is or there isn't).

Indeed. Science definitely deals with objective, observable phenomenon. It gets trickier when we are talking about elements that may be a bit harder to observe and define in a normal state of consciousness. I certainly don't believe many of the claims, but I don't disbelieve in them either. I simply don't know, and really, without my own experiences to validate, I will continue not to know. Most of the claims I could care less about. Some are interesting, but nonetheless, I do not believe in them.

One weird example would be the idea of lucid dreaming (once thought to be woo), what some call the 'out of body experience' is another that I have experienced as a child. I do not claim to believe that I am actually out of body, but it certainly felt that way. Some people claim to be able to do it more frequently and have found ways that confirm to themselves that it is more than just a dream by finding something they experienced or influenced while 'out of body' back when they were 'in their body.'

It's weird shit. I experienced the feeling of being out of body, traveling to my neighbor's house and so forth as a child. I had lucid dreams. These all scared me as a kid. I didn't have a name for them. I simply acknowledge that the experience exists, but I have not been able to do it since with intent in my adult years with a scientific mind to actually test and explore how 'objective' or matching up to my experience right now of being 'in body', so I cannot claim more than that the experiences are real and match up to accounts I have read about it.

Again, I do not claim that they are more than that, an experience of being out of body or being lucid in a dream and being able to fly, influence the dream experience, and so forth. They both felt quite real and different in their own way.

Now, I don't expect anyone, without these experiences, to believe me by my anecdotal account on an internet forum. I may be lying, I may not be. You will never know, and it really doesn't matter. The issue I raise, both in this sense and any other, is that lack of personal evidence or scientific evidence does not immediately justify a disbelief.

It's much healthier and rational to simply acknowledge a lack of knowledge or possession of knowledge/evidence about a claim or subject of interest. It's quite hard to prove a negative, if not impossible, so let's not try. Let's also watch for when we attempt to do so. If a claim is made, show the proof. But let's also be open to things if we possess an interest. If one does not hold an interest in a claim or subject in an area, and many will not ever agree upon what is interesting or important, then simply acknowledge that one does not have sufficient evidence or a desire to invest time to explore it, and move on.

Things like the existence of a God as described in many Abrahamic religions, which so far has had no proof, and being utilized as a basis for social law in a secular society (I can't imagine any other type of society that I would want to be a a part of) is quite different. I will adamantly oppose that. However, I could care less if people wish to pray or claim that they can travel to their neighbor's house through being out of body or other sort of experiences. If they feel they have them, and do not bother me, harm themselves or others, then it is not something I feel I need to get up in arm's about.