Posted: Oct 04, 2018 5:41 pm
Cito di Pense wrote:That went over like a leaden thought baloon. You never produced one statement by Dawkins which has anything to do with whether anecdotes are suitable in 'double blind studies' as competent researchers understand the methodology. You produced a clip in which Dawkins cited the utility of double blind studies (and we can assume Dawkins knows how the methodology is correctly implemented, whereas in your case, we cannot). Your incompetence is demonstrated throughout the scope of this single thread in which you've invested so much at so little profit.
Anecdotes are perfectly suitable for double-blind studies. Dawkins reveals the efficacy of such a method in these types of studies, and yes, I understand completely how the double-blind method works. If your argument is simply that you doubt my grasp of the double-blind method, then that's a pretty weak argument.
newolder wrote:
If that^ is too problematic then perhaps we could try another, step by step route to the science?
There is a drug, let’s call it P, that in 'heroic' doses causes some people to claim experience of the Ground Of All Being (GOAB).
Firstly, what is the GOAB? Is it a human brain state or something external that, nevertheless, can act upon human brains - like, say, a drug or an idea from another human brain - a meme? How and where is this GOAB shown? Do you think the plural of anecdote is data?
The core primary feature of a "complete" mystical experience, an experience which the impression is of a literal unicity with the very sum of all that exist. If I may take a couple of excerpts from Ken Wilber's "Up From Eden" book on the Perennial philosophy so that perhaps you can gain a better understanding of what is precisely is meant by "The Ground of All Being."
"According to the perennial philosophy, then, one's real self or Buddha Nature is not everlasting and death-defying; it is rather timeless and transcendent. Liberation does not mean going on forever and forever and forever in some sort of gold-embossed heaven. It means a direct and immediate apprehension of the is spaceless and timeless Ground of Being. This apprehension does not show a person that he is immortal — which he plainly is not. Rather, it shows him that where his psyche touches and intersects the timeless Source, he ultimately is all of a piece with the universe — so intimately, in fact, that at that level he _is_ the universe. When a person rediscovers that his deepest Nature is one with All, he is relieved of the burdens of time, of anxiety, of worry; he is released from the chains of alienation and separate-self existence. Seeing that self and other are one, he is released from the fear of life; seeing that being and nonbeing are one, he is delivered from fear of death.
Thus, when one rediscovers the ultimate Wholeness, one transcends — but does not obliterate — every imaginable sort of boundary, and therefore transcends all types of battles. It is a conflict-free awareness, whole, blissful. But this does not mean that one loses all egoic consciousness, all temporal awareness, that one goes into blank trance, suspends all critical faculties and wallows in oceanic mush. It simply means that one rediscovers the background of egoic consciousness. One is aware of the integral Wholeness and of the explicit ego. Wholeness is not the opposite of egoic individuality, it is simply its Ground, and the discovery of the ground does not annihilate the figure of the ego. On the contrary, it simply reconnects it with the rest of nature, cosmos, and divinity. This is not an everlasting state, but a timeless state. With this realization, one does not gain everlasting life in time, but discovers that which is prior to time." - Ken Wilbur
newolder wrote:In a double blind study of P on a randomised test group, what fraction of those who took placebo would be expected to claim experience of the GOAB during the trial? How was this figure calculated or estimated? What fraction of this group actually claimed experience of the GOAB during the trial? Are these two numbers significantly different and how is this shown?
Oh, definitely, the numbers are vastly different. If you compare the placebo, in which they used Ritalin (methylphenidate), you will find invariably in every case that the psilocybin rates greatly higher for the "complete" mystical experience. I don't believe they really had an expectation of the volunteers who took placebo, because that's the point of the double-blind method. That neither volunteer, nor the nurse, nor any of the professionals involved know what's being administered to the volunteer, placebo or psilocybin, and this is not to be revealed 'til the study is completely done.
newolder wrote:Measured in grammes, what is a 'heroic' dose of P for a 70 kg human?
Well, they're using a dose that is the equivalent to what Terence McKenna called the "heroic dose." That is five dried grams of psilocybin-containing mushrooms. However, that's not exactly what they're giving their patients. Rather, they're using pure psilocybin to the equivalent of that dose contained in a single pill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_6Wf8Xuq70&t=8m55s
newolder wrote:Apart from anecdotes, what other data are collected and analysed?
They're also using fMRI to assess these states aside from the anecdoatal data. Then, they also take the time to question closely the volunteers' family members, close friends or acquaintances to assess the behavioral changes in these individuals.
There's also the extensive exegesis that's been done by Dr. Ralph Hood who's recognized the reported mystical experience riddled throughout the literature of all the world's major religious and spiritual traditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbQOpWlyV5Q&t=4m51s
newolder wrote:How are these reports and data mapped to the GOAB? If the GOAB is a brain state, how is the GOAB brain state differentiated from other brains states resulting from the effects of P alone?
I don't think it's differentiated. I believe what these professionals have discovered is a universal phenomenon in consciousness that is similar across the board.
newolder wrote:If there are any PubMed references on “P and the GOAB” they should also be included.
Well, that's what this research is. That's what I've referenced. However, they don't specifically point to Paul Tillich's particular metaphor, nevertheless it is implied and intrinsically part of this research. "The Ground of All Being" is essentially synonymous with "The One" of Plotinus, the Brahman of Hinduism, the Beatific vision or Theoria of Christianity, of wu wei in Taoism, Fana in Islam, sekhel mufla in Judaism, etc., etc. or a "complete" mystical experience in this research.