Posted: Mar 05, 2010 2:14 pm
rainbow,
I'm not sure what you're driving at here. You seem intent on picking apart every little bit. However, these experiments and the 79 odd papers that Cali referenced show that it is possible, whatever other concerns you might have.
You can sit here and blather on about the details for years and it won't matter a hill of beans.
If you want to show that these events could not have occured, then you must do one of the following:
A) show that the experiments are flawed somehow. Not just say they are flawed, but show in such a way that the thousand odd abiogenesis researchers are wrong about some aspect of a pre-biotic Earth. You can't just 'claim' it's not so. You have to show it. These scientists have been doing this work for a long time and the chemical makeup of the pre-biotic Earth is pretty well known, though recent research does indicate there was more hydrogen so the atmosphere was more reducing that suspected.
B) show that there is a flaw in the chemistry. You are confused by how chemistry occurs and seem to think that it cannot occur without intelligent intervention. So, you would have to show that there is a difference between chemistry that is directed and chemistry that is non-directed (see your other thread).
Those papers and the summary presented by Cali are not the ramblings of men (much like your own ramblings), but the results of (sometimes) decades of efforts to crack one of the central mysteries of the Earth. I fully expect that you will not understand this concept.
Why not present what you think happened or better yet, do some research and publish the results.
BTW: Read my sig.
BBTW: (this took about 15 seconds on google by putting in the words "prebiotic phospholipid" Try doing some research before spouting off about things you don't understand.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v266/n5597/abs/266078a0.html Synthesis of phospholipids and membranes in prebiotic conditions
W. R. HARGREAVES, S. J. MULVIHILL & D. W. DEAMER
Department of Zoology, University of California, Davis, California 95616
IT is generally agreed that stable membranes were prerequisite to the assembly of the earliest self-replicating systems1−4. Phospholipids, which are ubiquitous in biological membranes and which self-assemble in aqueous environments into stable lipid bilayers and vesicles4, are obvious candidates for prebiotic membrane components. We report here the abiotic synthesis of various lipids, including membranogenic phospholipids.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THS-4985K18-1G&_user=10&_coverDate=09%2F01%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1234759390&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d1d869008b06a942c69e857c81eaf264
Toward higher polyprenols under ‘prebiotic’ conditions
Laurent Désaubry, a, , Yoichi Nakatania and Guy Ourissona
aUMR 7509, Université Louis Pasteur, CNRS, Centre de Neurochimie, 5 rue Blaise Pascal, F-67084 Strasbourg, France
Abstract
Geraniol and isomers (C10) can be obtained by the condensation of C5 monoprenols at room temperature in the presence of montmorillonite K-10. It is also possible to obtain farnesol (C15) and isomers by condensation of geraniol with isopentenol. Despite the low yields achieved, these findings support the hypothesis that polyprenyl phosphates may have been formed in prebiotic conditions, and served as constituents of primitive membranes.
I'm not sure what you're driving at here. You seem intent on picking apart every little bit. However, these experiments and the 79 odd papers that Cali referenced show that it is possible, whatever other concerns you might have.
You can sit here and blather on about the details for years and it won't matter a hill of beans.
If you want to show that these events could not have occured, then you must do one of the following:
A) show that the experiments are flawed somehow. Not just say they are flawed, but show in such a way that the thousand odd abiogenesis researchers are wrong about some aspect of a pre-biotic Earth. You can't just 'claim' it's not so. You have to show it. These scientists have been doing this work for a long time and the chemical makeup of the pre-biotic Earth is pretty well known, though recent research does indicate there was more hydrogen so the atmosphere was more reducing that suspected.
B) show that there is a flaw in the chemistry. You are confused by how chemistry occurs and seem to think that it cannot occur without intelligent intervention. So, you would have to show that there is a difference between chemistry that is directed and chemistry that is non-directed (see your other thread).
Those papers and the summary presented by Cali are not the ramblings of men (much like your own ramblings), but the results of (sometimes) decades of efforts to crack one of the central mysteries of the Earth. I fully expect that you will not understand this concept.
Why not present what you think happened or better yet, do some research and publish the results.
BTW: Read my sig.
BBTW: (this took about 15 seconds on google by putting in the words "prebiotic phospholipid" Try doing some research before spouting off about things you don't understand.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v266/n5597/abs/266078a0.html Synthesis of phospholipids and membranes in prebiotic conditions
W. R. HARGREAVES, S. J. MULVIHILL & D. W. DEAMER
Department of Zoology, University of California, Davis, California 95616
IT is generally agreed that stable membranes were prerequisite to the assembly of the earliest self-replicating systems1−4. Phospholipids, which are ubiquitous in biological membranes and which self-assemble in aqueous environments into stable lipid bilayers and vesicles4, are obvious candidates for prebiotic membrane components. We report here the abiotic synthesis of various lipids, including membranogenic phospholipids.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THS-4985K18-1G&_user=10&_coverDate=09%2F01%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1234759390&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d1d869008b06a942c69e857c81eaf264
Toward higher polyprenols under ‘prebiotic’ conditions
Laurent Désaubry, a, , Yoichi Nakatania and Guy Ourissona
aUMR 7509, Université Louis Pasteur, CNRS, Centre de Neurochimie, 5 rue Blaise Pascal, F-67084 Strasbourg, France
Abstract
Geraniol and isomers (C10) can be obtained by the condensation of C5 monoprenols at room temperature in the presence of montmorillonite K-10. It is also possible to obtain farnesol (C15) and isomers by condensation of geraniol with isopentenol. Despite the low yields achieved, these findings support the hypothesis that polyprenyl phosphates may have been formed in prebiotic conditions, and served as constituents of primitive membranes.