Posted: Oct 24, 2013 8:14 am
willhud9 wrote:Thomas Eshuis wrote:DarthHelmet86 wrote:Well when you rewrite reality so that evolution never happened and the Earth was flooded all over rewriting the history of your religions violent wars against another religion over holy land is easy peasy.
Getting so fed up with Christians and even some none-Christians claiming the Crusades were a defensive war against Islam/Arabs.
The Crusades are actually not clearly cut an act of violent aggression either.
Never said they were, merely that it wasn't a defensive war of West vs East.
willhud9 wrote:Many Christian pilgrims to Jerusalem, controlled by the Muslim empire, came back to the Latin world with horror stories of higher taxes to pay tribute to holy places, and a more harsh treatment of Christian and Jew alike. This is true as the Turks ravaged control of the Muslim empire and were a far more militant lot than before, repeatedly attacking Byzantium, and into the Peloponnese peninsula.
This isn't all that different from European wars at the time though.
willhud9 wrote:So the Emperor, Alexios I, appealed to the west to come aid Byzantium thus triggering the Crusades to cease and desist the Turkish maraud. So by that logic, it was not an aggressive, or defensive war. It was just a war.
It wasn't the Emperor though, but the Pope who actually blessed and promoted the Crusades, so in that regard it was an agressive war.
willhud9 wrote:Now later crusades became politically motivated, the thought of riches and glory for Kings became preeminent and some major atrocities and bloodshed occurred.
You think the first crusade wasn't politically motivated? That all those barons et al left their estates and properties purely for the Christian or Byzantian cause?
willhud9 wrote:But do not think for a second, the Turkish Muslims were innocent, more civilized people.
Never said they were, but you got to keep in mind the crusades were not just against the Turks, also against Egypt for example.
willhud9 wrote:The Muslim empire was facing violent shifts in its leadership and thus many radical changes, especially towards non-Muslims were taking place.
This situation was in constant flux, sometimes Christians and other non-muslims were allowed openly and freely into Jerusalem and other cities, in other instances, during a Crusade for example, they were mistrusted and were strictly curtailed or even persecuted.
Either way the idea that Turks were savages is a rather simplistic and black and white view.