Posted: Oct 08, 2015 1:35 pm
Mike S wrote:We’re going to have our work cut out for us, friend Stein!
But first, once more that useless Irenaeus age business!
How in the world could Irenaeus have introduced the Gospels into circulation and argue at the same time that Jesus was crucified as an old man about 20 years after the 15th (year?) of Tiberius, dejuror, when the gospels claim that he was crucified under Pilate, and not in 49 CE?
In lieu of innumerable disparities, why was it thought fit to distribute the synoptic gospels, all three that is, in the first place? - Discrepancies on such a scale as to render Irenaeus length-of-ministry argument but a minor hiccup.
Your statement is most absurd. The argument in "Against Heresies" that Jesus was ALIVE up to 20 years AFTER the 15th year of Tiberius is a major historical discrepancy especially when it is claimed that Irenaeus was a Presbyter and Bishop of the CHURCH.
In the Gospels, Jesus was dead and BURIED during the time of Pilate who delivered the DEAD body to Joseph of Arimathea.
Mark 15.
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.......... he gave the body to Joseph..
Matthew 27:58
He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
Luke 23
52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre...
John 19:
38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
IN ALL the FOUR Gospels Jesus is DEAD and BURIED in the time of Pilate.
PILATE delivered the DEAD BODY of Jesus to Joseph in ALL FOUR GOSPELS.
It is clear that the author of "Against Heresies" 2.22 could NOT have the same Gospels
"Against Heresies" attributed to Irenaeus
Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify....
The Gospel of the Church of Lyons and the Elders did STATE or TESTIFY that Jesus was dead when he was about to be FIFTY years old.
"Against Heresies" is supposed to be a PUBLICLY documented argument AGAINST the HERETICS who claimed Jesus died when he was 30 years old.
"Against Heresies" has made the FOUR Gospels the products of Heretics.
There is NO twenty year teaching ministry of Jesus after the time of Pilate in the ENTIRE NT.
"Against Heresies" DESTROYS the NT and the Pauline Corpus by placing the crucifixion of Jesus when he was about to be 50 years.
Mike S wrote:Writings of Tertullian are NOT in full agreement with those of Irenaeus?
I only asserted that Tertullian agreed with Irenaeus’ idea that every church ought to agree with that of Rome.
I have only exposed your consistent fallacious claims. You knew in advance of posting that the writings of Tertullian were NOT in full agreement with those attributed to Irenaeus.
Mike S wrote:Tertullian writings do not agree that Jesus was crucified when he was about to be fifty years old?
Why should they! I doubt he even referred to it!
The writings attributed to Tertullian specifically place the death of Jesus in the time of Pontius Pilate.
'The Apology' attributed to Tertullian
But the Jews were so exasperated by His teaching, by which their rulers and chiefs were convicted of the truth, chiefly because so many turned aside to Him, that at last ;they brought Him before Pontius Pilate, at that time Roman governor of Syria; and, by the violence of their outcries against Him, extorted a sentence giving Him up to them to be crucified. He Himself had predicted this.....
"Against Heresies" DESTROYS ALL Christian writings of antiquity [including Hegesippus] if they claim Jesus was about 30 years old when he was dead.