Posted: Mar 02, 2016 11:25 pm
Gday tanya and all 
Pardes came from old Persian and was imported into the Tanakh after the captivity, later Paradise became associated with Eden.
Don't think so.
That idea may be original to Paul's vision - presumably a vision of Jesus Christ crucified on a tree or cross in Paradise, near the burial of Adam.
Outer Space is a modern term expressing modern cosmologies. Lucian does not mention anything like 'Outer Space', he describes :
"Thus far I have told you what happened to me until I reached the other world, first at sea, then during my voyage among the islands and in the air, then in the whale, and after we left it, among the heroes and the dreams, and finally among the Bullheads and the Asslegs."
Carrier should have used a simple contemporary term like 'the heavens'.
What is uncertain is the 'world of myth', and how it relates to ancient tales.
Did Romulus live on earth or the world of myth ? Probably earth.
Heracles ? Probably earth.
Zeus and the pantheon on Mt Olympus ? Earthly or Heavenly ?
Phaeton and his chariot ?
Visits to heavens like 4 Ezra ?
The Jerusalem above ?
Thoth playing dice with the Moon ?
Kapyong
tanya wrote:a. At what point in time, i.e. in the written record, in any tradition, did the concept of Paradise first appear?
Pardes came from old Persian and was imported into the Tanakh after the captivity, later Paradise became associated with Eden.
tanya wrote:b. Did that concept, Paradise, in any culture, embrace the notion of death? torture? pain and suffering?
Don't think so.
That idea may be original to Paul's vision - presumably a vision of Jesus Christ crucified on a tree or cross in Paradise, near the burial of Adam.
tanya wrote:c. Why is 'outer space' silly? Were not authors of that era (Lucian) writing about 'outer space', and, even, travel to the moon?
Outer Space is a modern term expressing modern cosmologies. Lucian does not mention anything like 'Outer Space', he describes :
"Thus far I have told you what happened to me until I reached the other world, first at sea, then during my voyage among the islands and in the air, then in the whale, and after we left it, among the heroes and the dreams, and finally among the Bullheads and the Asslegs."
Carrier should have used a simple contemporary term like 'the heavens'.
tanya wrote:d. What is uncertain about mythology? Is the story of Romulus an uncertain myth? How about Herakles? How about Jesus?
What is uncertain is the 'world of myth', and how it relates to ancient tales.
Did Romulus live on earth or the world of myth ? Probably earth.
Heracles ? Probably earth.
Zeus and the pantheon on Mt Olympus ? Earthly or Heavenly ?
Phaeton and his chariot ?
Visits to heavens like 4 Ezra ?
The Jerusalem above ?
Thoth playing dice with the Moon ?
Kapyong