Posted: Nov 25, 2018 3:08 pm
by Calilasseia
Wortfish wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:If you need to ask the reason for the appearance of a rainbow, after 300 years of continuous progress in physics, then you need to get out a LOT more ...

You are making the classic error of confusing the agent with the mechanism :naughty:.

This presumes in advance that an "agent" actually exists. That presumption itself awaits proper, rigorous test. Which we've been waiting for 5,000 years to see from supernaturalists.

Wortfish wrote:The reflection/refraction of light through water molecules may be the material cause of how rainbows appear, but the divine agent as efficient cause

Oh for fuck's sake, haven't you learned that we've moved on as a species, in the 23 centuries since Aristotle wrote about this?

Aristotle fell into the same trap as a lot of people, namely, thinking that because human beings are responsible for ordered actions arising from intent, that ordered actions arising in nature needed an invisible magic man acting upon intent. Except that, oops, they don't. NONE of the asserted magic entities of any of our mythologies, your favourite one included, has ever shown up, let alone in a reliably repeatable manner. Alleged instances of food vandalism, arising from human pattern matching ability, don't count.

Wortfish wrote:is the one who sets up the conditions and physical parameters that allow the phenomenon to exist. You might want to ask, "Who made light and who made hydrogen and oxygen atoms"?

Hydrogen atoms form naturally, the moment you have a lot of protons and neutrons occupying the same space. Those opposite electric charges do the work.

As for oxygen, see: stellar nucleosynthesis.

Wortfish wrote:Ultimately, everything natural has been made by a supernatural creator.

Bollocks. Mythological magic men are nothing more than figments of the imaginations of ignorant pre-scientific humans. It's testable natural processes all the way down, which have been demonstrated during the past 300 years of scientific advance, to be sufficient to explain vast classes of entities and phenomena, including entities and phenomena that the authors of your sad mythology were incapable of even fantasising about. The authors of your mythology didn't even know of the existence of vast continental land masses on Earth, let alone the majestic panoply of astronomical objects science has since alighted upon, and placed with precise, usefully predictive quantitative frameworks of knowledge. The authors of your mythology didn't know about bacteria, they didn't know the underpinnings of basic genetics, indeed, they were incapable of counting correctly the number of legs that an insect possesses, a task any astute modern day five year old child can accomplish without difficulty. Yet you want to assert here, that the same authors of infantile mythology, that didn't know any of these things, somehow magically alighted upon the keys to the cosmos, whilst 300 years of diligent scientific advance didn't even come within a light year of the bull's eye? You should take this shit to Comedy Central.