Posted: Jan 16, 2023 11:45 am
by Leucius Charinus
darnwelling wrote:There's plenty of evidence of the historical existence of Jesus Christ our Lord.

There are also mountains and mountains of piously forged manuscripts, such as Jesus' letter to King Abgar.

For instance, early historical documents, such as the New Testament, mention Jesus and provide accounts of his life and teachings.

The NT is not an historical document. It is a theological / historical fiction story book.

The early Christian church, which emerged shortly after Jesus's death, provided early and consistent testimony to his existence.

Everything waited until the 4th century when the one and only church "historian" Eusebius troubled himself to go back over the ground of the preceding 300 years and collect whatever documents he could find (or invent).

Paul, an early Christian leader, wrote about Jesus in his letters, which are some of the earliest Christian texts we have.

That Paul or his letters existed in the 1st century is a proposition and not a fact.

The existence of Jesus is also attested to by early Christian art and archaeology, such as the earliest Christian symbols and frescoes.

New Testament archeology is an oxymoron. The evidence explodes in the 4th century.

The early Christian creedal formulations in the New Testament, such as the Apostle's Creed, affirm the belief in Jesus as a historical figure.

The Apostles Creed did not appear until the 4th or 5th century.

Jesus's existence is also supported by the early development and spread of Christianity, which occurred within the lifetime of those who would have been able to witness Jesus.

The early development and spread of Christianity is reflected in the Acts of the Apostles which is a fiction. The fiction is expanded at great length by Eusebius in the 4th century in his "Ecclesiastical History" which again is fiction.

The fact that early Christian writings were written in Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus, suggest that the authors were familiar with the details of his life.

All the earliest manuscripts are in Greek. Not one Aramaic NT fragment has been discovered.

The early Christian texts, such as the Gospels, were written within a generation of Jesus's life, indicating that the authors had access to information about him.

Nobody knows when the gospels were written or who wrote them. According to the paleographer Brent Nongbri the earliest fragments of the Christian texts may be as late as the 3rd or 4th century. The only radiocarbon C14 test results for Christian material are dated around the 4th century.

The accounts of Jesus's trial, death, and burial in the Gospels are consistent with the historical and cultural context of first-century Judea.

The Romans executed thousands and thousands. In the Acts of Pilate, Pilate tells the Jews that Jesus heals by the power of Asclepius.

The opposition to Jesus and early Christianity by both Jewish and Roman authorities suggest that Jesus was a historical figure whose teachings and actions were perceived as a threat.

The persecution of the Christians by pagan emperors is an invented ideological (and fictional) propaganda. The 4th Century Nicene "Church Industry" was Orwellian. "Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past." ... stians.htm

The fact that early Christian writings were copied and distributed widely suggests that they were considered to be based on historical facts.

The only reason that Christianity was successful is because Emperor Constantine decided to embrace it, to support it, to sponsor the publication and circulation of the NT bible Codex and to legislate on its behalf laws such as:

"At death people shall have the right to leave property to the church" [industry]

The fact that early Christian writings such as the Gospels were translated into many languages suggest that they were considered historically accurate.

No it was good for business and trade with Constantine. For example the reason Ethiopia converted to Christianity (during the rule of Constantine) and an Ethiopian translation of the bible was made, was because the rulers of Ethiopia converted in order to get on the right side of Constantine.

The Bible was translated to Latin by Jerome in the later 4th century because his boss Damasus, Bishop of Rome and Pontifex Maximus, was super keen to start the Vatican tourism business featuring the catch-cry "PETER-WAS-HERE". Damasus renovated the Roman catacombs in the period 364-381 CE and that's the earliest archeology.

The fact that early Christian writings such as the Gospels contain several historical details about Palestine and Jerusalem, indicating that the authors were intimately familiar with the region.

Have you ever read an historical fiction novel?

Some of the early Christian converts, such as Paul, were initially skeptical of the claims made about Jesus, which suggest that they would not have accepted these claims without solid historical evidence.

The only extra-biblical attestation to the historical existence of Paul comes from Seneca. I'll leave it up to you to find out where Seneca attests to the existence of Paul. It's not a good ending.

The fact that early Christian writings such as the Gospels contain both teachings and miracles of Jesus, indicate that they were intended to present him as a real historical figure.

Gandalf the Grey fell from the Bridge of Kazadoom and into the Pit of Moriah while fighting the Balrog but was resurrected to become Gandalf the White. Harry Potter did some clever stuff. The Phantom was known as "the Ghost who walks".

Not all those who wander are lost.

The fact that early Christian writings such as the Gospels present Jesus as fulfilling Jewish prophecies, indicate that they were intended to present him as a real historical figure in line with Jewish beliefs.

This indicates the opposite. Whoever fabricated the gospels copy/pasted massive amounts of material from the Greek LXX (Old testament) into the Greek NT. The prophesies were reverse engineered by design. It's complete bullshit.

The existence of Jesus is also supported by non-Christian historical sources, such as the Jewish Talmud and the Roman historians Suetonius and Thallus.

I've dealt with the Pagan witnesses to the historicity of "Christians" Prior to the Christian Revolution of the 4th century in a separate post. There are arguably none. The utterly corrupt church industry engaged in fraud and forgery of manuscripts which were supposedly independent of the church. Why there are so many forgeries in this specific class of literature highlights the fact that the Christians probably did not exist until the Bible was published as a political instrument in the Roman empire. When this happened Christians appeared everywhere. Everyone wanted to be a part of the clergy. Why? Because it was tax exempt in an epoch in which land tax had tripled in living memory.

The fact that early Christian communities developed around the figure of Jesus, indicate that the members of these communities believed Jesus to have existed as a real historical figure.

Constantine managed to convince himself that the Jesus Story Book was a good business plan. His army looted the pagan temples of their gold and treasure an artwork and destroyed the major temples. In some cases the chief priests were publically executed. People got a little nervous but were heartened when he legislated that "Religious privileges are reserved for Christians". Constantine became one of the richest people on the planet virtually overnight. The Nicene Church industry which he commissioned is still running and the turnstiles are still clicking over.

In 381 CE the Emperor Theodosius decreed

'We authorise followers of this law to assume the title of orthodox Christians; but as for the others since, in our judgement, they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious names of heretics.'

Charles freeman writes:

In AD 381, Theodosius, emperor of the eastern Roman empire, issued a decree in which all his subjects were required to subscribe to a belief in the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This edict defined Christian orthodoxy and brought to an end a lively and wide-ranging debate about the nature of the Godhead; all other interpretations were now declared heretical.
Moreover, for the first time in a thousand years of Greco-Roman civilization free thought was unambiguously suppressed. Not since the attempt of the pharaoh Akhenaten to impose his god Aten on his Egyptian subjects in the fourteenth century BC had there been such a widesweeping programme of religious coercion.