Posted: Nov 18, 2010 11:32 am
I’m not being a drama queen, I have very serious issues. I’ll say right off that I’ve already seen a doctor who has already referred me to see a psychologist. But I can’t see how anyone can help me for reasons I’ll go through below.
This is a long post but I beg whoever is reading this right now, in all sincerity to read it all. I really truly need to talk to someone, I need your help. Seriously. Please stay with me here.
I haven’t had internet access for the last week or so I’ve not been able to talk to anyone with knowledge and perhaps the same experiences I’m going through. Basically I’ve been having the most terrible time of it. Honestly.
It all started when I realised that, whilst hell is just the grave (Gehenna), I found out that the lake of fire is another place where people can spend an eternity in agonising fire. And this is terrifying me. The reasons why are as follows.
For about 1 maybe 2 years leading up to all this, I’d had serious doubts over my faith, and at two points I almost admitted to being agnostic. Once I almost admitted I was atheist.
I have to tell you, I have been diagnosed with suffering from acute anxiety problems, and whilst I have not been diagnosed with it, I am sure I have O.C.D and/or ADHD. I am not kidding.
Over the last week I started to develop a sickening fear because I believe I’ve blasphemed the Holy Ghost. I’ve also got this tendency to think things I shouldn’t. If for example you said to me, don’t think of ‘banana chocolate’ because you’ll die, I’d think about it for no reason other than it would have terrible consequences - for me. I never do this to harm others; it’s always to cause me some type of mental anguish.
This is why I think I may also have O.C.D and or A.D.H.D. This I stress does not manifest physically like when some people cut themselves. I don’t do that. It’s almost like I am my own worst enemy and that I hate myself. I can’t think of any other reason for the self mental abuse. It may even be a form of mental tirrets (that’s where people can’t help shouting out obscenities at inopportune moments). You might think this next statement is crazy but trust me when I say that I really don’t think it comes from Christianity. Although the fear and guilt comes with it, I think I may have always been like this to some extent.
Anyway (sorry it’s this is so long but I’m trying to explain exactly what I am going through), this is how it went:
[Stage 1] I find out there is an eternal lake of fire torment for sinners. Quite how I missed this after 20 years I’ll never know. Some say it’s eternal fire, some say it’s just annihilation, some say it's just figurative. I’ve researched it heavily and I think it’s annihilation. But being not sure, the fear gnaws at me.
[2] Because I find out there’s a type of hell after all, I remember being told there was one ‘unforgiveable sin; and that was blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
[3] Because I find out what it is…and how terrible this would be if someone did it…you can guess what happened next. My mind started becoming agitated and after a while I ‘think’ I mocked the Spirit and I deliberately felt anger toward it. Reason being for the anger, when I started thinking ‘Hey, the entire bible may not be for real don’t forget’, I immediately felt a surge of ‘fight back’. Like when you have been trapped and you are suddenly free, you just want to fight. I really don’t think I had control over the emotion.
Just before I fall asleep, I even see (not every time) visions of flames, and I’ve even in my dream state heard, or ‘experienced’ would be a better term, the words ‘Destined for hell’. I see flames, fire, it's terrible, really terrible.
But the worst thing is this, that everyone else, atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Hindus, murderers etc, they can all earn forgiveness because they can repent. Whereas I cannot. So I imagine myself spending an eternity alone in fire. That comes across as a bit selfish, and I apologise.
Imagine not even being able to commit suicide because you think you’ll only hasten the worst case scenario. Have to stress though, I haven’t literally thought about it, but I did begin to understand why some people would take their own lives. I stress, I won’t do this. I have a wonderful wife and three amazing children who I love more than anything. I’m just trying to get over the utter feelings of terror, despair and hopelessness I feel. I’ve even cried about it a few times.
There does seem to be a glimmer of hope though. As I said, for the last year, maybe 2, I’ve been having major faith issues. But here’s the trouble, I don’t know if:
[a] I believe the bible but I’m forcing myself not to (is that even possible?) because then all my troubles go away
[b] I don’t believe but I’m terrified of being wrong about suffering eternal fire
I really genuinely do not know. Man do I obsess.
So what I am doing is watching a lot of good respectable quality science videos on you tube. This settles me down a bit, as it makes me believe the bible is not and cannot be true.
So this is where I am right now. I am watching Qualiasoup, Thunderf00t, Edward Current, thethinkingatheist.com, exchristian.net, this forum etc. I’ve also read the God Delusion and Godless by Dan Barker. I have watched Hitchens and have his book to read God is not Great. Also going to re read Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus.
And that’s all I’m doing.
The thing is, when I walk away from all this, it gives me time to percolate all the information swimming around in my head. And if I’m to be honest, the bible does seem to be nothing but myth and legend. Sometimes it seems so obvious that it’s created by man and not a god. But if I believe that (and as said, at the time it does seem obvious), why does the thought of deliberately blaspheiming the Spirit terrify me? That doesn’t seem logical. The very thought of living my life without God seems to very very strange, weird, surreal. And I never really went that much to church over the last 20 years. I’ve read the bible all through 2 or 3 times, and I guess God is never really far from my thinking. I’ve also prayed every night and day for the last 10 or so years. Still, it feels alien to not have God in my day to day life. It would be like losing a part of me.
I don’t know if anyone can offer any advice, I’ve even been to the doctor and they have put me on the waiting list to see a psychologist.
I also have a few questions:
[1] How, when and by whom was the N.T compiled?
[2] Do males have one rib less than women (forgive my ignorance, but I actually heard this in an attempt to prove the cration myth had some credence in it)?
[3] Is it right to compare God and the bible to the Greek gods? The events of the bible occur in an historical time frame with locations we can verify and people we can say with much certainty existed. Can other religions like the Greek one claim this?
[4] Is the Sumerian religion with Enki and Enlil etc older than the O.T?
[5] What about the Egyptian one?
[6] Did the Jews expect their Messiah to be the actual ‘son' of God?
[7] The geneologies of Jesus in the gospels are thorough and look authentic. These geneologies seem to be strong evidence that the ‘man’ Jesus existed. And apparently the discrepencies have been comfortably explained by bible scholars. If this is true, shouldh’t we just accept that someone called Jesus did exist? This is telling because the Jews expected a messiah to come. And wasn’t the New Testament written about 350 years after the Old Testament? Not sure why but this seems like a realistic timeframe to me. And if someone called Jesus existed, then he might have been the Son of God prophesised to come.
[8] This may sound crazy, but my friend keeps talking about fruit flies in an attempt to disprove evolution. Being a complete beginner to evolution I have no idea what he’s on about, but it’s something to do with how they evolve, even devolve if left in a certain environment. Do you have any idea?
[9] Which so called copy cat saviour actually lived before Jesus? I think Apolloniua lived around 2 A.D, if he actually lived at all.
[10] What gets me is, if the bible is not true, how come it has grown over thousands of years with numerous different authors? I doesn’t add up. The Israelites have followed Yahweh for millennia. Carefully recorded events and geneologies as well. I can’t help thinking no other religion has done this. This takes some real dedication if it is all made up. The question has to be, why the bother?
[11] Similarly with Jesus. He very probably existed, and when he came on the scene, he taught things the Jews didn’t like. To me this smacks of truth because it’s what you would not expect. A bit like the 'woman at the tomb first' line of reasoning.
[12] Counted as one of the biggest proofs, what about the prophecy that the Jews would re-enter their lands in the last days? Then in 1947 (o 48 I think), the state of Israel was officially their s again. There is even some math about 1,260 days prophecy (something to do with Daniel and the date 687 BC?) proving this. How is that explained away?
[13] Has the initial appearance of self replicating molecules been explained?
These questions may sound like an attack on atheist points of view but they aren't. These are just questions I find reinforce my belief in Chritianity,
Finally…
I just want to say I have always enjoyed my time here, and I feel I have gotten to know some characters here just by their text. I totally respect you all, and I’ll never ever forget the roasting Occam’s Laser handed me when I first entered the Richard Dawkins website prior to it closing down. Like I say, I still have the laser marks on my behind.
I realise this is heavy stuff, I apologise. And I’m sorry it’s so long, but it’s because I’ve had over a week to think about all this and it’s all just accumulated. Please do not feel bad if you can’t offer any advice. Feel free to type anything here or you can pm me or email me (pending@sky.com) if you want. I really do not mind and would appreciate it immensely.
Has anyone gone through anything similar?
This is a long post but I beg whoever is reading this right now, in all sincerity to read it all. I really truly need to talk to someone, I need your help. Seriously. Please stay with me here.
I haven’t had internet access for the last week or so I’ve not been able to talk to anyone with knowledge and perhaps the same experiences I’m going through. Basically I’ve been having the most terrible time of it. Honestly.
It all started when I realised that, whilst hell is just the grave (Gehenna), I found out that the lake of fire is another place where people can spend an eternity in agonising fire. And this is terrifying me. The reasons why are as follows.
For about 1 maybe 2 years leading up to all this, I’d had serious doubts over my faith, and at two points I almost admitted to being agnostic. Once I almost admitted I was atheist.
I have to tell you, I have been diagnosed with suffering from acute anxiety problems, and whilst I have not been diagnosed with it, I am sure I have O.C.D and/or ADHD. I am not kidding.
Over the last week I started to develop a sickening fear because I believe I’ve blasphemed the Holy Ghost. I’ve also got this tendency to think things I shouldn’t. If for example you said to me, don’t think of ‘banana chocolate’ because you’ll die, I’d think about it for no reason other than it would have terrible consequences - for me. I never do this to harm others; it’s always to cause me some type of mental anguish.
This is why I think I may also have O.C.D and or A.D.H.D. This I stress does not manifest physically like when some people cut themselves. I don’t do that. It’s almost like I am my own worst enemy and that I hate myself. I can’t think of any other reason for the self mental abuse. It may even be a form of mental tirrets (that’s where people can’t help shouting out obscenities at inopportune moments). You might think this next statement is crazy but trust me when I say that I really don’t think it comes from Christianity. Although the fear and guilt comes with it, I think I may have always been like this to some extent.
Anyway (sorry it’s this is so long but I’m trying to explain exactly what I am going through), this is how it went:
[Stage 1] I find out there is an eternal lake of fire torment for sinners. Quite how I missed this after 20 years I’ll never know. Some say it’s eternal fire, some say it’s just annihilation, some say it's just figurative. I’ve researched it heavily and I think it’s annihilation. But being not sure, the fear gnaws at me.
[2] Because I find out there’s a type of hell after all, I remember being told there was one ‘unforgiveable sin; and that was blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
[3] Because I find out what it is…and how terrible this would be if someone did it…you can guess what happened next. My mind started becoming agitated and after a while I ‘think’ I mocked the Spirit and I deliberately felt anger toward it. Reason being for the anger, when I started thinking ‘Hey, the entire bible may not be for real don’t forget’, I immediately felt a surge of ‘fight back’. Like when you have been trapped and you are suddenly free, you just want to fight. I really don’t think I had control over the emotion.
Just before I fall asleep, I even see (not every time) visions of flames, and I’ve even in my dream state heard, or ‘experienced’ would be a better term, the words ‘Destined for hell’. I see flames, fire, it's terrible, really terrible.
But the worst thing is this, that everyone else, atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Hindus, murderers etc, they can all earn forgiveness because they can repent. Whereas I cannot. So I imagine myself spending an eternity alone in fire. That comes across as a bit selfish, and I apologise.
Imagine not even being able to commit suicide because you think you’ll only hasten the worst case scenario. Have to stress though, I haven’t literally thought about it, but I did begin to understand why some people would take their own lives. I stress, I won’t do this. I have a wonderful wife and three amazing children who I love more than anything. I’m just trying to get over the utter feelings of terror, despair and hopelessness I feel. I’ve even cried about it a few times.
There does seem to be a glimmer of hope though. As I said, for the last year, maybe 2, I’ve been having major faith issues. But here’s the trouble, I don’t know if:
[a] I believe the bible but I’m forcing myself not to (is that even possible?) because then all my troubles go away
[b] I don’t believe but I’m terrified of being wrong about suffering eternal fire
I really genuinely do not know. Man do I obsess.
So what I am doing is watching a lot of good respectable quality science videos on you tube. This settles me down a bit, as it makes me believe the bible is not and cannot be true.
So this is where I am right now. I am watching Qualiasoup, Thunderf00t, Edward Current, thethinkingatheist.com, exchristian.net, this forum etc. I’ve also read the God Delusion and Godless by Dan Barker. I have watched Hitchens and have his book to read God is not Great. Also going to re read Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus.
And that’s all I’m doing.
The thing is, when I walk away from all this, it gives me time to percolate all the information swimming around in my head. And if I’m to be honest, the bible does seem to be nothing but myth and legend. Sometimes it seems so obvious that it’s created by man and not a god. But if I believe that (and as said, at the time it does seem obvious), why does the thought of deliberately blaspheiming the Spirit terrify me? That doesn’t seem logical. The very thought of living my life without God seems to very very strange, weird, surreal. And I never really went that much to church over the last 20 years. I’ve read the bible all through 2 or 3 times, and I guess God is never really far from my thinking. I’ve also prayed every night and day for the last 10 or so years. Still, it feels alien to not have God in my day to day life. It would be like losing a part of me.
I don’t know if anyone can offer any advice, I’ve even been to the doctor and they have put me on the waiting list to see a psychologist.
I also have a few questions:
[1] How, when and by whom was the N.T compiled?
[2] Do males have one rib less than women (forgive my ignorance, but I actually heard this in an attempt to prove the cration myth had some credence in it)?
[3] Is it right to compare God and the bible to the Greek gods? The events of the bible occur in an historical time frame with locations we can verify and people we can say with much certainty existed. Can other religions like the Greek one claim this?
[4] Is the Sumerian religion with Enki and Enlil etc older than the O.T?
[5] What about the Egyptian one?
[6] Did the Jews expect their Messiah to be the actual ‘son' of God?
[7] The geneologies of Jesus in the gospels are thorough and look authentic. These geneologies seem to be strong evidence that the ‘man’ Jesus existed. And apparently the discrepencies have been comfortably explained by bible scholars. If this is true, shouldh’t we just accept that someone called Jesus did exist? This is telling because the Jews expected a messiah to come. And wasn’t the New Testament written about 350 years after the Old Testament? Not sure why but this seems like a realistic timeframe to me. And if someone called Jesus existed, then he might have been the Son of God prophesised to come.
[8] This may sound crazy, but my friend keeps talking about fruit flies in an attempt to disprove evolution. Being a complete beginner to evolution I have no idea what he’s on about, but it’s something to do with how they evolve, even devolve if left in a certain environment. Do you have any idea?
[9] Which so called copy cat saviour actually lived before Jesus? I think Apolloniua lived around 2 A.D, if he actually lived at all.
[10] What gets me is, if the bible is not true, how come it has grown over thousands of years with numerous different authors? I doesn’t add up. The Israelites have followed Yahweh for millennia. Carefully recorded events and geneologies as well. I can’t help thinking no other religion has done this. This takes some real dedication if it is all made up. The question has to be, why the bother?
[11] Similarly with Jesus. He very probably existed, and when he came on the scene, he taught things the Jews didn’t like. To me this smacks of truth because it’s what you would not expect. A bit like the 'woman at the tomb first' line of reasoning.
[12] Counted as one of the biggest proofs, what about the prophecy that the Jews would re-enter their lands in the last days? Then in 1947 (o 48 I think), the state of Israel was officially their s again. There is even some math about 1,260 days prophecy (something to do with Daniel and the date 687 BC?) proving this. How is that explained away?
[13] Has the initial appearance of self replicating molecules been explained?
These questions may sound like an attack on atheist points of view but they aren't. These are just questions I find reinforce my belief in Chritianity,
Finally…
I just want to say I have always enjoyed my time here, and I feel I have gotten to know some characters here just by their text. I totally respect you all, and I’ll never ever forget the roasting Occam’s Laser handed me when I first entered the Richard Dawkins website prior to it closing down. Like I say, I still have the laser marks on my behind.
I realise this is heavy stuff, I apologise. And I’m sorry it’s so long, but it’s because I’ve had over a week to think about all this and it’s all just accumulated. Please do not feel bad if you can’t offer any advice. Feel free to type anything here or you can pm me or email me (pending@sky.com) if you want. I really do not mind and would appreciate it immensely.
Has anyone gone through anything similar?