Posted: Nov 13, 2014 12:43 pm
DarthHelmet86 wrote:Thommo wrote:DarthHelmet86 wrote:Thommo wrote:So you're saying that someone who isn't suffering (any living person who you would not say is suffering) is suffering more than someone else who is not suffering (a dead person).
I think that's a straightforward self contradiction. Clearly two people who are not suffering are suffering the same amount (not).
The dead lack the ability to suffer the living have it. A person might not right now be suffering, pleasure might out weigh all the problems in their life but they still have a chance to suffer. The dead have no calculation of pleasure over pain they just have nothing.
Sure, but that doesn't address the issue. It takes a particular view of "suffering" (fair enough, although it's the view that Fallible expressly denied holding which prompted that quote of mine) it doesn't establish that this is what TMB meant, does it?
I will take him at his word,TMB wrote:
You are also arguing that when your loved ones die, it is worse for the one left alive. THis sounds a bit like Hillary Clinton's view that women are the real victims when men get killed in war because they are left alive to suffer. If we assume that dead people do not suffer as do the living, if life was so bad for these'victims ' of war they would end their lives.
Dying sucks big balls, it is the end of life and that is always bad. But it also affects those around it and those partners left alive suffer. And no "if they were really suffering they would kill themselves because death has no suffering" changes that.
My mother is dying, see will die at some point in the next couple of years. It is brutally crap that she is losing out on all her years of life that most people her age have left. But it is also just as hard on all of us who will live on past her, her mother, her son, her sisters and her friends. We have to deal with losing someone we love and once my mother has passed on there will be no dealing with anything for her she will be dead and we wont be. There is no calculation about who has it worse, there is no way to say that her lost years of life out weigh our pain and there is no way I will accept someone saying that people who loose loved ones don't have it all that bad because they don't kill themselves. You want to play word games with TMB go for it, try and define a subjective emotional experience and try and calculate who has it worse those who die or those who live on. I will just go on experiencing it and calling bullshit when people like TMB post things like.TMB wrote:If we assume that dead people do not suffer as do the living, if life was so bad for these'victims ' of war they would end their lives.
Well said. Very well said indeed.
