Posted: Nov 14, 2014 10:35 am
by TMB
surreptitious57 wrote:
TMB wrote:
You are also arguing that when your loved ones die, it is worse for the one left alive. This sounds a bit like Hillary Clinton's view that women are the real victims when men get killed in war because they are left alive to suffer. If we assume that dead people do not suffer as do the living, if life was so bad for these victims of war they would end their lives

Suicide is not the only option for someone experiencing suffering so your assumption that anyone who does experience it in the above scenario has no choice but to end their life is demonstrably wrong. Since human beings can experience incredible quantity and quality of non life threatening suffering without resorting to the ultimate solution as a means of eradicating it Of course some do but some is not the same as all. I disagree with Hillary here as it is not only women who are bereaved by war as men obviously are too. Now would you suggest the same for them if they experienced that type of suffering too. And if you would not then why not

Your response misses the fundamental and overwhelming simple question. Is it better to be dead or alive? Do we think the state of life is better than the state of death or not, and which state would we rather choose. It does not mean or imply that life is always a good place, there is plenty of suffering and I have doubt there are people who would rather be dead who cannot end their lives and I suspect this is due to the finality and our deep and abiding desire not to be dead. The difference is that living people have some degree of choice, while the dead do not, in fact they (as has been so excruciatingly debated by some here) cannot even be said to have nothing, because things that no longer exist cannot be said to 'have' anything.

Of course Hillary is talking rubbish, as you say dead soldiers leave male companions, but my point was that she positions living people (at least the female ones) as being more victim than dead soldiers. So if I even understood your last question, I suspect I am indifferent to this.