Posted: Jan 26, 2015 4:54 am
by Greyman
Agrippina wrote:
carl wrote:
Nicko wrote:
carl wrote:God was not taken by surprise by mankind's sinfulness nor is He without a plan to redeem the situation:


So He has a solution for the problem He created?

Cool. How's that working out?

The point, in case it escapes you, is that omnipotent beings don't need "a plan" to do anything. They want something done, it's done. That's what "omnipotent" means.

Regardless, your objection still doesn't address the issue of the vast amount of suffering not caused by human beings.


1) Where in the Bible does it say God caused the Fall after His initial Creation? It doesn't. It says humans caused it and continue to perpetuate it today.


Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

If he didn't want them to fail, why did he put this tree there? To test them? But he's all-knowing, so he knew they would disobey, therefore putting the tree there, with the knowledge that they would fail his test, means that he caused "the Fall."

2) What cosmic law says God can't have a plan and have a certain timing for the unfolding of His plan?

Suffering, birth defects, disease, natural disasters, death, etc. were all brought into God's perfect Creation by Adam and Eve's original sin, which tainted God's original Creation which was initially 'very good'.

Where in the Bible does it say that God caused a worm that eats eyeballs? Or that he caused flesh-eating bacteria to develop just to spite humans because he set his creation up for a fall by putting temptation in their way, knowing that they would succumb to the temptation?

It's worse than that, according to carl's theology*, it wasn't an act of God: It was very act of original sin (disobeying god to seek the wisdom to understand ethics) which broke the perfection of god's creation and caused natural evil -- natural disasters, disease, suffering, predation, and parasitism, et cetera. Somehow.

(* Though, no, that wasn't claimed in the Bible either.)

But yeah, god has totally got an excellent plan to fix this. This was revealed to consist of:
  • Instructing the original humans to go forth an multiply, knowing that their numerous descendants would inherit this sin.
  • On realising that humans were multiplying, and in particular the descendants of Cain were developing cities, and civilisation, and such, deciding to flood the entire world killing everything except for the population of a zoo boat.
  • Then, some time after the descendents of Noah has repopulated the world, deciding to sacrifice his son to remove(redeem) their inherited original sin. (Wait...couldn't that have been done a little earlier?)
  • Finally, promising that some indeterminate time in the future to destroy humanity in yet another massive murder fest (see: Revelation) and start again with a new, perfect world. (Again, why not do that the first time?)