Posted: Dec 15, 2016 5:16 pm
by The_Metatron
SafeAsMilk wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
The_Metatron wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
Yep, and that's your limit of tolerance to risk.

A couple more things: the shooting in the face business is your or someone else in this topic's invention. I never used those words. Again, the common term for it "straw man". You have to invent something I didn't say, then you get to have fun tearing it down.

A colorful shorthand, about which a more specific reiterating would change nothing. You'll just have to deal with having your own statements thrown back in your face, even though you refuse to deal with how hypocritical it makes your position, as I pointed out a long time ago to unsurprising radio silence.

Further, I didn't extend my offer of violence to simply "pedophiles", did I? More of that straw man business? No, I was a fair bit more specific, wasn't I? I'll reiterate for you: torture of girls.

Oh, I'm so sorry, you're perfectly happy to let people who think about raping children a pass off the murder train, but torture of girls is where you draw the line! I wonder if tortured boys receive your same thoughtful sympathy.

I know perfectly well it is Thomas who has hung his hat on empathy as what "prevents" some pedophiles to act. I am not confident that either of you understand that that prevents nothing, though.

There is little doubt that pedophiles exist who are able to control their urges

Thanks for contradicting yourself. It prevents nothing, yet they are able to control their urges...which prevents, unless it doesn't, then it isn't control, of course.

What I think you and Thomas don't want to face is the idea that many of them, or perhaps even most of them, will eventually fail in that endeavor. I base that estimate on the power that the drive for sex has on human behavior.

As Thomas pointed out, unless you go around raping women, you're full of shit on that count. Pedophiles are capable of understanding that rape is wrong, and not acting on it. That doesn't mean you push them or create situations for them to act. That would not only be stupid, but a shitty thing to do both for them and your children.

Oh, I see what you mean. You're saying we shouldn't tempt the pedophiles, is that it?

How does that work?

Er, you shouldn't tempt anyone. I mean, why the fuck would you have your friend who's quit smoking watch your cigarettes? They'd most likely be able to deal, but still, why the fuck would you do that? That's pretty sadistic.

You and I are expected to control ourselves, in all situations.

Yeah you're right, we understand right from wrong and get pressure from our society to act right...wait wait, NOW you think empathy and social pressure is sufficiently preventative? Seriously, make up your fucking mind, you can't have it both ways.

Restricting what women wear is a hot topic along those lines. A common approach to that is that women should be able to wear whatever the hell they want and have the expectation that they won't be sexually assaulted because of it. Seems like a good approach to me. Much of the Muslim world disagrees.

Uh yeah, pedophiles are expected to not molest children. Have I suggested putting bin liners over children to not tempt the pedophiles? I don't think I did. Maybe I should have, then this wouldn't be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Are you telling me now that these pedophiles may not be able to exercise that same level of control as what is expected from everyone else? They need to be protected from temptation? More so than everyone else?

Nope, about the same as everyone else. I'm just not a sadist that would specifically put them in situations designed for them to fail, just as you wouldn't do for anyone else. But hey, you're the one that can't decide whether empathy and social pressure are sufficient enough for people in general, lord knows pedophiles don't get much of that, and I mean it's not like there's laws and police to consider or anything...

Well, isn't that considerate of you, worrying as you do about the tender sensibilities of the world's pedophiles who might be tempted? I must have missed your commentary elsewhere on scantily clad women tempting all of those heterosexual men out there.

Unless of course, you have different expectations from pedophiles than you do other sexual orientations. There is evidence that you do, with your declared concern for not tempting pedophiles by exposing them to the objects of their attraction, coupled with your silence on the same scenario when it involves oh, any other sexual orientation.

Now, I'm not really being fair to you here, because the consequence of your typical grownup who is not a pedophile acting on the sexual attractions is not criminal, while the consequence of a pedophile doing so is. In our society, that is. This hasn't been a universal taboo, I'm confident you know perfectly well. However, to suggest one group warrants your protection from temptation while you demonstrate little concern for other groups being tempted similarly is at best, inconsistent. On its face, it's hypocritical.

Unless, of course, the possibility exists that pedophiles, as a group, are as likely to act on their orientation as any other differently oriented group.

We keep coming around to this, you and Thomas keep trying to convince that this isn't the case. Yet, you produce no reason why this should be so, excepting Thomas' ridiculous dependence on the forebearance of empathy. I've given both of you a good example of how far empathy goes in limiting behavior. But that spawns another question:

In our modern world, acting on pedophilia involves taking that which the pedophile doesn't have (and cannot obtain) permission to take. Very much like rape of adults, taking what one has no permission to take.

You two have harped on and on how the empathy felt by pedophiles limits their behavior. What about the empathy felt by groups of other sexual orientation? Does their empathy for others not suffice to limit their behavior? We know for a cold, hard, fact it does not. So, here's a question for you empathy experts: Why not?

You'd like us to believe that pedophiles have ironclad empathy driven behavior limiters. Why should they have any more of this magic stuff than any group of another sexual orientation?