Posted: Aug 23, 2010 2:20 pm
I decided to start this thread out of the one about my personal issues in the parenting & education forum. A lot of interesting general discussion came up there that wasn't particularly relevent to the specific issue, so I thought I'd follow it up separately.
What is gender?
Obviously gender as a set of social constructs is as "real" as any other set of social constructs. ie, not objectively real at all, but real in the sense that society chooses to operate that way and in doing so, has real effects upon peoples' lives.
But I think what I'm referring to here is gender as a person's own subjective sense of "being" male or female, or "identifying" with male or female gender roles.
I'm going to start from the position that this concept is not real: it doesn't describe any actual psychological reality (in most people, at least), that can't be adequately described by other factors.
As far as I can tell, the factors that contribute to a person's sense of identity in relation to sex, are:
1. Their biological sex
2. Their sexuality
3. Their interests
4. Their interaction with social expectations about how these factors go together.
The concept of "gender" only seems to arise where there is a severe conflict between any of the first three of these factors, and the fourth one. A biological male who happens to be homosexual will have to fight against homophobes who insist on the expectation that men "should" want to have sex with women. A young girl who happens to like playing rough games will be called a "tomboy" and, later, probably be suspected of being gay, simply because her interests don't coincide with what society says they "ought" to be. In extreme cases, a young child can form a transgender identity and insist that they are the opposite of everything people tell them they "should" be.
But the problem with all this is that factor 4 is entirely cultural and arbitratry. There is no innate connection between biological sex and certain interests, or contradiction between it and other interests. Since these social expectations are not "real" - they are not rooted in anything to do with physical or innate psychological reality - the idea of "gender" that emerges from them cannot be real either. It is simply a way of describing the interaction between the real elements of a person's body and psychology, and social expectation.
Anecdotally, I have never known young children to have a concept of their own "gender" that is separate from or additional to these elements. Small children just get on with life. If they want to play with dolls they do. If that is celebrated or discouraged because of the spurious assumptions of the adults around them, then obviously that affects how they continue in terms of seeking reward from their environment. The one exception to this seems to be transgender children, who develop the sense that they "are" the opposite sex from their bodies, largely out of extreme conflicts between their personality or interests and social expectations (ie, factors 3 and 4 above).
But I'd be interested to know if any of the psychologists around here have any information about this that isn't so anecdotal.
Also anecdotally, I don't personally understand what it means to "be" male, or to "feel" male. I'm aware that I have a penis; that I want to shag women; that there are certain things that interest me and others that don't; that society deems some of these things "manly" and others not. That's it - factors 1-4.
But beyond this, what does it mean to "know" that one is a certain "gender"? Can anyone describe it?
What is gender?
Obviously gender as a set of social constructs is as "real" as any other set of social constructs. ie, not objectively real at all, but real in the sense that society chooses to operate that way and in doing so, has real effects upon peoples' lives.
But I think what I'm referring to here is gender as a person's own subjective sense of "being" male or female, or "identifying" with male or female gender roles.
I'm going to start from the position that this concept is not real: it doesn't describe any actual psychological reality (in most people, at least), that can't be adequately described by other factors.
As far as I can tell, the factors that contribute to a person's sense of identity in relation to sex, are:
1. Their biological sex
2. Their sexuality
3. Their interests
4. Their interaction with social expectations about how these factors go together.
The concept of "gender" only seems to arise where there is a severe conflict between any of the first three of these factors, and the fourth one. A biological male who happens to be homosexual will have to fight against homophobes who insist on the expectation that men "should" want to have sex with women. A young girl who happens to like playing rough games will be called a "tomboy" and, later, probably be suspected of being gay, simply because her interests don't coincide with what society says they "ought" to be. In extreme cases, a young child can form a transgender identity and insist that they are the opposite of everything people tell them they "should" be.
But the problem with all this is that factor 4 is entirely cultural and arbitratry. There is no innate connection between biological sex and certain interests, or contradiction between it and other interests. Since these social expectations are not "real" - they are not rooted in anything to do with physical or innate psychological reality - the idea of "gender" that emerges from them cannot be real either. It is simply a way of describing the interaction between the real elements of a person's body and psychology, and social expectation.
Anecdotally, I have never known young children to have a concept of their own "gender" that is separate from or additional to these elements. Small children just get on with life. If they want to play with dolls they do. If that is celebrated or discouraged because of the spurious assumptions of the adults around them, then obviously that affects how they continue in terms of seeking reward from their environment. The one exception to this seems to be transgender children, who develop the sense that they "are" the opposite sex from their bodies, largely out of extreme conflicts between their personality or interests and social expectations (ie, factors 3 and 4 above).
But I'd be interested to know if any of the psychologists around here have any information about this that isn't so anecdotal.
Also anecdotally, I don't personally understand what it means to "be" male, or to "feel" male. I'm aware that I have a penis; that I want to shag women; that there are certain things that interest me and others that don't; that society deems some of these things "manly" and others not. That's it - factors 1-4.
But beyond this, what does it mean to "know" that one is a certain "gender"? Can anyone describe it?