Posted: Jan 11, 2011 7:01 am
tribalypredisposed wrote:Samsa, nope, pretty sure the failure to communicate is not happening on my side. For example, when one uses the term "last" one expects English speakers to know what is meant.
Here is what was abundantly clearly your "last" paragraph of the post I quoted the entirety of:
"With that said, however, there is nothing logically that would force us to reject the theory of evolution by suggesting that gender is a purely social construct. This is because evolution does not determine all of our behaviors, and sometimes it is entirely irrelevant to consider. For example, say we are looking at someone's behavior in a choice situation where they can pick A or B. Since both options rely on the same evolved learning mechanisms, there is no need to consider the theory of evolution and instead we just need to look at the environmental variables. So we can say that if a person chooses option A, then it's a "purely" environmental/social decision, given that the genetic influences were equal in both options."
This is the sentence you claim is the first sentence in it:
" I don't think anyone is actually arguing that gender is purely a cultural construct (at least not in the sense that biology plays absolutely no part), instead they're just pointing out that when looking at gender, biological sex is not a perfect predictor."
This is the sentence that is actually the first sentence in it:
"With that said, however, there is nothing logically that would force us to reject the theory of evolution by suggesting that gender is a purely social construct. "
Fair point, that was my fault for assuming you were lumping the last section of my post into a "paragraph". But see, it's easy just to correct someone's mistakes rather than going on a personal tirade about being misrepresented. Arguably you didn't need to go into so much detail, but you got your point across.
tribalypredisposed wrote:As for the rest, when you think can manage to stop stuffing the word ALL into what you claim to be my positions than I will entertain the notion that an exchange of ideas with you might be anything more than a complete waste of my time.
Okay, I can accept I was wrong again if you could just clarify this sentence for me: "The idea that there is "no innate connection" between gender and expressed behavior inherently depends on the idea that human behavior is not the product of evolution."
So if you accept that not all human behavior is the product of evolution, then your argument fails since there is no logical problem with claiming that there is no innate connection since we've accepted that not all human behaviors are the product of evolution, and theoretically this could include gender (since "gender" is a description for the behaviors and beliefs associated with certain roles, and is independent from biological sex).
tribalypredisposed wrote:What logically forces us to reject the notion that gender is a purely social construct in humans is that humans are quite clearly and indisputably dimorphic, men and women look a fair bit different physically. Theory of Evolution insists that form and function are linked. Additionally we know that various substances like Estrogen and Testosterone affect our behavior, and exist in very different amounts in our bodies depending which sex we are. I could go on but there is no point. If your assertions are correct then form does not follow function and therefore the Theory of Evolution is decidedly wrong. Selection would be impossible if your assertion was correct. This is the only answer logic can give us.
That's all fine and dandy, but the whole point of gender is that it isn't limited or restricted to our biological sex, so our dimorphism is entirely irrelevant to the question.
tribalypredisposed wrote:I encourage you to at least Google a primer on the Theory of Evolution. It does apply to a lot of areas of behavior and science these days and understanding it even a little will greatly increase your scientific literacy.
I understand the ToE very well thanks, and specifically how it relates to behavior, which is why I was confused when your comments appeared to be at odds with the scientific consensus. Maybe tomorrow you could teach my grandmother how to suck eggs.