Posted: Jul 15, 2015 2:00 pm
by Thomas Eshuis
Peter Brown wrote:
Sendraks wrote:

The problem emerges when you make the claim that a) all mosques are involved in criminal activity or b) that all muslims support that activity. Neither a) and b) are evidenced in anyway as being true.

The problem is there are just too many things in the Qur'an that are criminal now, let alone the Hadith

As there are in the bible and Torah.

Peter Brown wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
Many muslims do not follow the Qu'ran as written, because it is hugely open to interpretation.

Even teaching that implementing Sharia (Allah and the messenger’s laws) is the goal of Allah and the messenger is preaching the overthrowing of basic democracy in some form. In England we had the war that ended up with the principle of Magna Charta, nobody is above the laws of the land.

And the Reformed party in the Netherlands wants to replace the constitution with the bible and Ten Commandments.
However, most Dutch people, including Christians are opposed to this.
Since you've failed to present any evidence that anymore than a small minority of the Brittish muslims are in favor of Sharia law, this is yet more baseless fearmongering.

Peter Brown wrote:Now I might not always agree with individual laws, but I do agree that even with its faults, the principle of everyone being equal before the law is good place to start and that we can vote and improve (or regress the laws) is dynamic but mostly good for civilisation.

My contention is, and I’m sure you 100% agree again, Sharia is anti democratic, it is theocracy, it is whatever the Qur’an tells you Sharia is. They had the war on who decides what was Sharia or not 1300 to 1200 years ago, the priest won.

At that moment in time.
Since then there are different interpetation of what Sharia is and to whom it should apply.

Peter Brown wrote:Religion is greater than secularism in Islam.

No shit. That's because it is a fucking religion.
In any religion, religion is greater than secularism.

Peter Brown wrote: Only time it hasn’t been was when new secular Caliphs stamped down on the constant infighting of Muslims, but even secular Caliphs die and what I cheekily call born again Muslims bring back good ol’ Muhammad the Arab values as read from the Qur’an.

Can you stop devolving into this utter non-sequitur red herrings?

Peter Brown wrote:
Now in a Muslim country they can vote in Sharia, vote once and lose that vote to change forever more. Only was to get rid of Sharia is a bloody revolution to impose secular values.

Oh look, you've managed to present yet more shit as data.
The largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia, which does not have Sharia law.
Nor does India, Malaysia and plenty of other Muslims countries.

Peter Brown wrote: And I got to ask can a Muslim really be a Muslim if the do not follow what Allah and the messengers instructions on how to be a Muslim?

You get to demonstrate again that you're not interested in an honest, rational debate.
It's been explained to you, ad-nauseam that there is no One True Islam TM.

Peter Brown wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
Many muslims do not follow the Qu'ran as written, for the same reasons as many Christians do not follow the bible as written.

and I say it is more because they are forbiden to by non Muslim rules to follow the Quran, and bloody good thing too.

What you say is counterfactual bullshit.

Peter Brown wrote:You need to go to a Muslim nation to see how Sharia in action, Sharia unchained or in chains

Already eviscarated this nonsense.

Peter Brown wrote:It is the same with Jews not killing disobedient children, they wisely fear going to prison if they do.


Peter Brown wrote: But there must be more to it than just that, there is Israel after all and all of Moses laws could be in force in Israel surely?

Well there must have been a change of opinion, not just in the Jews but the people who minister Jews, the rabbi. I know some rules are impossible now to follow, the Jews have no Holy of Holy so they can’t sacrifice goats or even a pigeon, they have no High priest anymore so they no longer have the magic words to used gods telephone. The Romans did one hell of a job on the religion when the Jews rebelled against the Empire, and the Christian Emperor Justinina did one hell of a job on them and the Samaritan too decades later.

Oh look, more obfuscation through red-herrings.

Peter Brown wrote:As for Christian, whatever, they were forced not to be Christians too if you want a simple reason. Unless you are living in America????