Posted: Apr 03, 2011 5:43 pm
by SkyMutt
jez9999 wrote:
SkyMutt wrote:By whose edict?

The Quran's? You quote some other religions which aren't relevant because they have a long history of constant questioning and/or rejections of parts of their holy texts, which Islam does not.

Find one pseudo-Muslim who doesn't say they accept all of the Quran as God's perfect word... you'll struggle.

No, it's actually not hard at all to find Muslims who take a similar attitude toward the Quran as certain liberal Christians take toward the Bible. Your pejorative term "pseudo-Muslim" is irrelevant, and exposes your prejudice.

jez9999 wrote:If they were actually saying they could cherrypick it like Christians do the Bible, then we'd be getting somewhere.

You seem to have a very simplistic understanding of Islam, and again, you want to equate the whole with a part (fundamentalists). It's not a monolith of faith, despite what fundamentalist Muslims proclaim. Perhaps reading this page, which gives some of the history of varieties of Islam might help you understand why your assertions regarding the nature of Islam in the modern world are unfounded. A small section of the linked page that addresses the misconceptions you seem to be laboring under:

Cultural Muslims

Cultural Muslims are Muslim in the sense that many westerners are Christian: they know more about the religion they profess to be than any other. In genuine Christianity, one is not a Christian if they have not given over their life to Christ. However, a person can be a Muslim as long as they say the right things, and do not get too out of line. As a matter of fact, in Austin I heard of an atheist who was also a Muslim. He did not believe Allah was real, but thought that Islam was a lifestyle he wanted to have.

Liberal Muslims

Modern, liberal Muslims differ from cultural Muslims in that liberal Muslims can be very serious about their religion. They are not trying to lie when they say Islam is a religion of peace; they sincerely believe that. This is in spite of the way the majority of the Muslim world has been throughout the ages. They are not ignorant of what has gone on, but believe that most of the Muslim world is filled with ill-educated people that have only a caricature of true Islam. On the other hand, conservative Muslims deplore modernists who bow Islam before the modern world. What they are ignorant of, or have rationalized away, is that the source of Islam, Mohammed himself, was a violent person who led raids on caravans, ordered assassinations, and commanded his followers to kill pagans and fight Christians and Jews.

Liberal Muslims say that conservatives are in the minority; conservatives say that liberals are in the minority. Some newspaper articles about protests and schools in Muslim lands indicate that there are substantial numbers of both conservatives and liberals. Yes, the conservative Muslims says that non-Muslims are to be killed (with some protection for Jews and Christians living in Muslim lands who pay an extra tax for being non-Muslim). All of the "reasonable" arguments of liberal Muslims and non-Muslims will not sway them, because Mohammed was clear on this.


As you can see, Muslims who do not hold to violent jihad exist (in great numbers), and do not consider themselves "pseudo-Muslims." You seem to seek to alienate liberal Muslims by saying that they aren't true Muslims. In that you are in agreement with radical fundamentalist Muslims, but that doesn't mean you, or they, are correct.