Posted: Jul 25, 2021 1:59 pm
by Agrippina
truelgbt wrote:
Hermit wrote: Yes, atheist dictators have committed mass murders in the 20th century. So have theist dictators. Dictators are psychopaths regardless of whether they subscribe to a religion, or not.

Hermit - Someone else answered my question to you, but not you. So here it is again.

What born-again Christian can you specifically name, who specifically named Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, who was also a dictator who killed millions - just like all of those atheist dictators listed in the OP?

The term "born again" originated in the age of the rise of televangelism and new religious dogmas breaking away from the customary ones that emerged after the Martin Luther era of revolt against the Catholic Church.

During the reign of Henry VII in England, there was a small number of people who rebelled against the dictates of the Catholic Church and the prohibition on people reading the bible for themselves. Henry followed this type of thinking by making himself the head of the church in England, thereby opening up the opportunity for Wesley, Calvin and the like to create similar churches in the kingdom, especially after the King James Version became accessible to the general populace. People could read and interpret the text for themselves, as members of the English church and other major Protestant religions in Europe, and the rise of small denominations began, with Calvinism becoming the Presbyterians in the UK, and the Dutch Reformed Church in Europe. Wesley's dogma became the Methodists who led the Pilgrims to the "New World", where the exploration of small groups of people formed their own dogma as they explored the continent from west to east.

This is where the various evangelicals formed their religious cults, eventually leading massive religious organisations under leaders such as Biily Graham in the mid-1900s. The idea of adult baptism and rebirth after the interpretation of John the Baptist as the inventor of adult baptism was behind the phrase of "being born again". These people and the various cults they formed, took their religion out of America via missionaries to the various lands they discovered were being indoctrinated by the Catholics, Methodists, and Islam, and while the dictators in these places adopted the religion and ran mass killings of people who they perceived as being "sinners" i.e. Catholics, Muslims, gay people, trans-gender people, anyone who didn't conform to the indoctrination they received at the hands of the confusion of missionary-run schools, changing their youth from traditional forms of worship to something new, something that promised they would live after death. So to ask for a dictator who was also a "born again Christian" is a little of a wide stretch. Mussolini was a catholic, Hitler and "other"-hating psychopath who was raised under German Calvinism, i.e. Lutheran after the teaching of Matin Luther, so the born-again business didn't reach them, but it did form part of the excuse Idi Amin used to murder people he perceived as against the missionary-taught religion he was baptised into.

The reason I ask this is because many people in the USA claim to be theists - up to 70%. Yet, 70% of the population do not go to a Christian church or claim to be born-again or name Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

It's the same everywhere. People call themselves Christians as opposed to being Catholics or Muslims, but they're not practicing "Christians" just Sunday socialising at the church Christians.

They are simply theists - they believe in the EXISTENCE of God and that's all. Coming to the conclusion that a God or god exists is a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence but that does not make anyone a Christian. Muslim suicide bombers are theists and look at all the blood on their hands.

I doubt they actually believe in God. I think it's more a case off what people do on Sundays, but the rest of the week they go about their business without mentioning their religion unless it's asked on a census form, or they have to fill in a block in an employment application, or a hospital admission form.

So, please name a born-again Christian who was also a dictator. Will wait for your answer.

A quick look around the internet tells me that Idi Amin was a Catholic until he converted to Islam.

Robert Mugabe was a staunch Catholic, educated by Jesuits.

The perpetrators of Apartheid in South Africa were devout members of the Dutch Reformed Church who, while they don't use the term "born again" see it as absolution of your "sins" and acceptance of their teaching, and of course handing over 10% of your income to them in the form of filling an envelope at the end of each round of payment of your earnings. Apartheid was definitely a dictatorship, although it's not formally treated as such, the dogma of religion dictating that some people are "more than" others based on ethnicity, is dictatorship.

From Wikipedia:
The Oxford Handbook of Religion and American Politics notes: "The GSS ... has asked a born-again question on three occasions ... 'Would you say you have been 'born again' or have had a 'born-again' experience?" The Handbook says that "Evangelical, black, and Latino Protestants tend to respond similarly, with about two-thirds of each group answering in the affirmative. In contrast, only about one third of mainline Protestants and one sixth of Catholics (Anglo and Latino) claim a born-again experience." However, the handbook suggests that "born-again questions are poor measures even for capturing evangelical respondents. ... it is likely that people who report a born-again experience also claim it as an identity.

To ask for the name of a dictator who would claim having been "born again" is one of those questions that can't be answered for the simple reason that a dictator would never admit that they were ever wrong. They might admit that they found one religion worked better for them than another, but the very term "dictator" means someone who rules under the fallacy that they, personally, have never made any mistakes, are faultless in their behaviour, and of superior intellect, and therefore simply admitting that they were previously "sinners" and needed to be "born again" to become something else, simply goes against the idea of dictatorship. A narcissist his never wrong. The truth is their truth, i.e. the way they see and interpret even things that actually have an element of truth in them. They'll not admit to being wrong, not even when they adopt a new form of worship.